[microsound] why i'm not excited about Live

[CraqueMat]

External to the computer, I use a good deal of custom hardware and 
sampled objects and looping/delays.

I was a Digital Performer user for a good 10 years before diving into 
learning Logic, which is what I use now.

SoundHack is indispensable, as are Tom Erbe's other plugins. Along these 
lines I've also employed Plogue Bidule.

Wave Editor is now my waveform editor of choice.

Check out my software page: http://sounding.com/blog/?page_id=89

Max & Mark wrote:
> So what do u use then ?
> 
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : microsound-bounces at or8.net [mailto:microsound-bounces at or8.net] De la
> part de CraqueMat
> Envoyé : 19 janvier 2009 13:03
> À : microsound list
> Objet : Re: [microsound] why i'm not excited about Live
> 
> I've tried to embrace Ableton Live, I truly have.
> 
> I grew up on "real DAW" before the D was even part of it (remember 
> before the Internet that thing called just "MOTU Performer" and it's 
> multiple copy-protected floppies?), so maybe I'm just being too inflexible.
> 
> And frankly, I haven't explored Live beyond the versions I can get, uh, 
> "preview copies" of. However, it's such a delicate DRM matter that I'd 
> rather not bother, because it could stop working, so I don't.
> 
> I like some of the GUI benefits of Live. It makes for a quick work flow, 
> maybe too quick, maybe too easy. When I use Live, I feel like I'm 
> playing with a toy, which may not be a bad thing, but in so many cases I 
> have gotten going in one direction and hit walls that I don't encounter 
> in DP or Logic. So much so, that it's been frustrating to the point that 
> I can't use Live because I know the walls are there, and Live will force 
> me to work in a certain Live-Paradigm that sometimes just isn't 
> complemented by my brain (and vice versa) or what I want to accomplish 
> musically.
> 
> It's extremely cost prohibitive for me as well. Laying down several 
> hundred clams on a DAW means to me: you're using that DAW until you get 
> your money's worth. When I wonder about how many people I know use these 
> software packages illegally, I also wonder about how many people 
> actually pay for them, and what the real market demand is. In other 
> words, the sort of grassroots/DIY/homemade music (that I'm interested in 
> at least) isn't made by people that have a few grand of cash lying 
> around to buy software to help them make music. There's a weird 
> economical constant buried in there someplace, because I know software 
> piracy in the underground electronica world is pretty rampant. Is this 
> part of the "academic" dichotomy? I don't really know, but it feels to 
> me like academes probably have easier "legal" access to this software 
> than a grassroots musician does.
> 
> In the end, I don't use things like Max/MSP and Live because they are 
> not the way I think about making music, in fact I often feel like they 
> get IN the way. I'm much more tactile, I get very easily frustrated 
> that, when using "software" to *create* music, I become lost in the 
> creation of the software and not the making of music. This is probably a 
> hangover from being a classical musician, where the means to create are 
> immediately at hand (or throat, as the case may be).
> 
> Pluggo is plenty for me, in other words. While I know the DSP folks will 
> friggin love the Live/Max marriage, I don't see a use for it. I know 
> it's a flexible program, I have a good friend who uses it religiously, 
> and *I* was the one to get him to move off ACID onto Live. Personally, I 
> feel like Live forces me to work in a particular way with a 
> particular... well, "groove", for lack of a better word. That may be a 
> preset/customization argument, but when I see how cookie cutter Live has 
> gotten (it's not nearly as slim as it used to be, I get easily confused 
> looking at its interface nowadays, and now it seems like nearly EVERY 
> plugin has its own catalog of presets), it doesn't enamor me to use it.
> 
> Neil Clopton wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:00 AM, <microsound-request at microsound.org 
>> <mailto:microsound-request at microsound.org>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>      > Firstly, Live can be used in a more traditional linear way in
>>      > 'Arrangement' view at the tap of a button. 
>>
>>
>> I spend ~98% of my time in Live in the Arrangement view.
>>
>>      > Just because it is
>>      > capable of undertaking loop based sequencing, does not mean that
>>      > the software is a one trick pony, and therefore should be
>>      > discounted without question.
>>
>>
>> I think a lot of people are not aware of how Live's features and 
>> ambitions have grown.  Especiallly since version 6, Live has become a 
>> full featured DAW with good MIDI, recording and ReWire support.
>>
>> -- 
>> DJ Dual Core's Blog
>> http://oldmixtapes.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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