[microsound] why i'm not excited about Live

[Michael Kuszynski]

is it really that big?

If they can make a whiz-bang-doo vocoder...

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Graham Miller
<grahammiller at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> that's really the only big one left to do...
>
> On 19-Jan-09, at 1:07 PM, Michael Kuszynski wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have any insight on why bezier automation curves are not a
>> feature within Live?
>>
>> Seems like such an elementary DAW feature.
>>
>> Version 8 appears to finally offer crossfading.
>>
>> They seem to add a lot of whiz-bang features, and leave out crucial
>> ones.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:03 PM, CraqueMat <craque at craque.net> wrote:
>>> I've tried to embrace Ableton Live, I truly have.
>>>
>>> I grew up on "real DAW" before the D was even part of it (remember
>>> before the Internet that thing called just "MOTU Performer" and it's
>>> multiple copy-protected floppies?), so maybe I'm just being too
>>> inflexible.
>>>
>>> And frankly, I haven't explored Live beyond the versions I can
>>> get, uh,
>>> "preview copies" of. However, it's such a delicate DRM matter that
>>> I'd
>>> rather not bother, because it could stop working, so I don't.
>>>
>>> I like some of the GUI benefits of Live. It makes for a quick work
>>> flow,
>>> maybe too quick, maybe too easy. When I use Live, I feel like I'm
>>> playing with a toy, which may not be a bad thing, but in so many
>>> cases I
>>> have gotten going in one direction and hit walls that I don't
>>> encounter
>>> in DP or Logic. So much so, that it's been frustrating to the
>>> point that
>>> I can't use Live because I know the walls are there, and Live will
>>> force
>>> me to work in a certain Live-Paradigm that sometimes just isn't
>>> complemented by my brain (and vice versa) or what I want to
>>> accomplish
>>> musically.
>>>
>>> It's extremely cost prohibitive for me as well. Laying down several
>>> hundred clams on a DAW means to me: you're using that DAW until
>>> you get
>>> your money's worth. When I wonder about how many people I know use
>>> these
>>> software packages illegally, I also wonder about how many people
>>> actually pay for them, and what the real market demand is. In other
>>> words, the sort of grassroots/DIY/homemade music (that I'm
>>> interested in
>>> at least) isn't made by people that have a few grand of cash lying
>>> around to buy software to help them make music. There's a weird
>>> economical constant buried in there someplace, because I know
>>> software
>>> piracy in the underground electronica world is pretty rampant. Is
>>> this
>>> part of the "academic" dichotomy? I don't really know, but it
>>> feels to
>>> me like academes probably have easier "legal" access to this software
>>> than a grassroots musician does.
>>>
>>> In the end, I don't use things like Max/MSP and Live because they are
>>> not the way I think about making music, in fact I often feel like
>>> they
>>> get IN the way. I'm much more tactile, I get very easily frustrated
>>> that, when using "software" to *create* music, I become lost in the
>>> creation of the software and not the making of music. This is
>>> probably a
>>> hangover from being a classical musician, where the means to
>>> create are
>>> immediately at hand (or throat, as the case may be).
>>>
>>> Pluggo is plenty for me, in other words. While I know the DSP
>>> folks will
>>> friggin love the Live/Max marriage, I don't see a use for it. I know
>>> it's a flexible program, I have a good friend who uses it
>>> religiously,
>>> and *I* was the one to get him to move off ACID onto Live.
>>> Personally, I
>>> feel like Live forces me to work in a particular way with a
>>> particular... well, "groove", for lack of a better word. That may
>>> be a
>>> preset/customization argument, but when I see how cookie cutter
>>> Live has
>>> gotten (it's not nearly as slim as it used to be, I get easily
>>> confused
>>> looking at its interface nowadays, and now it seems like nearly EVERY
>>> plugin has its own catalog of presets), it doesn't enamor me to
>>> use it.
>>>
>>> Neil Clopton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:00 AM, <microsound-request at microsound.org
>>>> <mailto:microsound-request at microsound.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Firstly, Live can be used in a more traditional linear way in
>>>>> 'Arrangement' view at the tap of a button.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I spend ~98% of my time in Live in the Arrangement view.
>>>>
>>>>> Just because it is
>>>>> capable of undertaking loop based sequencing, does not mean that
>>>>> the software is a one trick pony, and therefore should be
>>>>> discounted without question.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think a lot of people are not aware of how Live's features and
>>>> ambitions have grown.  Especiallly since version 6, Live has
>>>> become a
>>>> full featured DAW with good MIDI, recording and ReWire support.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> DJ Dual Core's Blog
>>>> http://oldmixtapes.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Kuszynski
>> kuszynski at gmail.com
>> www.planerecordings.com
>> New York, NY
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>>
>
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-- 
Michael Kuszynski
kuszynski at gmail.com
www.planerecordings.com
New York, NY