[microsound] post-laptop era?

[David Powers]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 5:15 PM, michael trommer <trommer at sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Re. computer with a non-computer interface - it seems to me that most
> digital gear is exactly that, be it an mpc or one of those 'workstation'
> keyboards.
>
> Re. the loss of musical traditions, I think that many
> hip-hop/glitch/house/techno artists would disagree - many would argue that
> the mpc/303/808/909 etc. is/are at the foundation of the style and sound of
> their music.

Does music made with an 808 etc. have anything to do with the rich
tradition of human music making that is thousands of years old? I
think it is pretty clear that it does have to do with that tradition,
that the sounds people came up with in 1982 or 1992 or 2002 or the
present didn't just appear in a vacuum. In a way you prove my point...
If someone thinks the 808 is the "foundation" of their style and
sound, they have entirely forgotten everything that came before the
808 existed. I would argue that there is no foundation at all, rather
than a foundation there is a history, and you can always look deeper
into the history.

Not only that, but if a machine is the "foundation" of a style and
sound, what exactly is the role of the human being? What is the role
of human freedom and creativity?

Finally, I'm not sure if you are actually saying anything at all: you
might as well say that "paint" is the foundation of the style of all
painters. But does that statement, in itself, have anything more than
formal or tautological meaning?

> Sampling as 'merely a sound effect', eh ? Wooh...there's a can of worms
> you've opened...

Note, that I did not say sampling is necessarily, or always, or only a
sound effect. I in no way mean to imply that sampling is somehow, in
its essence, problematic. I would add that it is not only sampling,
but also most DSP, and, if one seeks a less controversial example, how
about the ubiquitous presence of the "Auto-Tune" effect on vocals in
pop music in recent years?

I do see the trend in digital music making as similar to a trend in
Hollywood, to create movies that are always bigger and "badder" with
always more special effects, but at the same time always less
coherence, less construction, until the film threatens to become
nothing but montage of effects strung mindlessly together to form a
bombastic surface. And while digital music is the easiest culprit to
pinpoint within the current musical landscape, I would add that for
American music produced via industrial processes, this is nothing new;
I would say this goes for most popular music made since the creation
of music became an industrialized process.

> i'd also be careful about positioning the 'old' 'real' aesthetics of a
> coltrane against the 'new' - it reminds me of when people were arguing that
> 'real' music was played on guitars (or whatever) and that anything played on
> electronic instruments wasn't 'real' music. As a kid it usually boiled down
> to a drunken argument of zeppelin vs. kraftwerk...stupid.

Now here you have entirely misread me. The question isn't about the
authentic old against the real new; the question is, why isn't the new
really new? Why isn't technological progress leading to much apparent
musical innovation.

As far as Zeppelin vs. Kraftwerk, though I'm not as big a Kraftwerk
fan as some, I think my argument would clearly be aligned with
Kraftwerk as really making a kind of break from their tradition, while
Zeppelin were rehashing the same old rock and roll riffs. The Coltrane
example was picked not because it involved acoustic instruments, or
because it occurred in some golden age of authentic music. It simply
was the example that occurred to me most spontaneously, and I'm sure
that there are musicians working with digital technologies in the year
2009 that are following in the same tradition; I'm just not
immediately aware of them.

I stand by my argument, though, that innovation in its current phase
probably requires, not a return to tradition, but an awareness of and
willingness to learn from tradition in order to move forward. There
are plenty of interesting theories and traditions of music; if one
were to seriously study even one of these traditions, and take that
tradition seriously, I have no doubt that something novel would be
created as a result. The problem is the postmodern tendency to
equalize all traditions as being simply individual preferences, and
then to use them only as empty signs, rather than seeking to penetrate
the inner substance of these traditions with all their contradictions
and unrealized possibilities. To put it another way, innovation
requires tension, an encounter with some Other that challenges the
coordinates from which one creates--even if that Other is in fact
found within one's own work or tradition. One key problem with much of
today's music is that there is no inner tension, and thus nothing can
ever really develop. Familiarity with the great musical traditions can
help develop the sense of history and the awareness of how great music
works, allowing one to see the inner tensions in one's own practice
and develop them into something new. Especially key here is to examine
how substantial innovations have occurred within the great traditions,
to examine the practices and internal contradictions that brought
about Beethoven, Chopin, or Charlie Parker.

Ultimately, I stand by my point--the future is not to be found in new
technologies, better interfaces, and all the rest. The future is in
fact already here, hiding within the past and the present, but only on
the condition that as a free human being, one has the audacity to open
one's eyes and see it.

>
> On 12/15/09 3:00 PM, "David Powers" <cyborgk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Personally I believe that there is a problem with this hypothesis.
>>
>> To begin with, I have yet to see a human/machine interface that gives
>> me the kind of nuance that I achieve when I play piano. Even if such
>> an interface existed, when encounters the problem of technological
>> obsolescence. The lifespan of technologies is too short, and for any
>> new instrument, there are no teachers and no tradition. Thus, it is
>> difficult if not impossible to achieve the kind of virtuosity that is
>> possible on more traditional instruments. This in turn means the range
>> of performance possibilities tends to be rather limited, or if I might
>> say so, even rather "amateurish".
>>
>> However, I am even more disturbed by a trend I see arising as a result
>> of the prevalence of digital music making: I believe that much
>> important musical knowledge is being lost. If one considers the great
>> musical traditions of the world, which for me would include Indian
>> classical, Chinese and Japanese music, West African drumming, European
>> classical, jazz, and contemporary compositional practices, there is a
>> huge range of harmonic, rhythmic, melodic, and timbral knowledge and
>> possibility available. Yet, most of this knowledge is being forgotten,
>> leading to extremely narrow musical practices. Instead of mastering
>> the structural aspects of these musics, one usually encounters them,
>> if at all, as directly sampled appropriations.
>>
>> The problem with this is that sampling (like the application of novel
>> dsp effects here and there) normally exists entirely at the surface;
>> it is in most cases merely a "sound effect". It has no impact on the
>> inner structure of a musical composition. Consider the difference
>> between the influence of Indian music on, say, John Coltrane's
>> saxophone improvisations, with a piece of music that merely samples a
>> sitar riff. The difference is obvious: by taking seriously the inner
>> structure of Indian music, and using the insights gained in this way,
>> Coltrane was able to produce a radical new musical space. Coltrane's
>> recording of "My Favorite Things" is precisely an Event, opening up
>> the space of freedom, proposing a new way of creating vibrations. One
>> might even say that at a certain level, the sitar sample is, in
>> Hegelian terms, an abstract negation of Indian music; it is simply an
>> empty signifier for an exotic Other; it refers to another tradition,
>> the better to avoid any real encounter, to keep this alien Other at a
>> distance. Coltrane's approach, on the other hand, is to wrestle with
>> the Other, not to reproduce it but to critically encounter it in order
>> to produce a synthesis that produces something really new, something
>> which is no longer just jazz, but is not Indian music either, nor is
>> it just a simple pastiche of the two.
>>
>> In conclusion, I would say that one must distinguish between mere
>> progress, which in our day and age is only the passing of time under
>> the rule of capital, and the radically new which comes as an Event
>> rupturing the structure of reality and opening up new possibilities
>> for freedom. Technological progress is not bringing more freedom, it
>> is not opening up new possibilities, precisely because progress
>> remains entirely within the coordinates of the market place and the
>> society of controlled consumption.
>>
>> If we wish to really discover what is new, in art as in life, perhaps
>> it is time to take a deep breath, to step back, and to not be afraid
>> of what is considered "old-fashioned" and traditional; not so that we
>> can slavishly recreate a tradition, but in order to find the seeds of
>> the new, the possibilities for freedom that lie dormant within the
>> accumulated cultural experience of the global human society.
>>
>> ~David
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Graham Miller
>> <grahammiller at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>> the future is in control surfaces and human/machine interfaces...
>>>
>>> On 15-Dec-09, at 1:27 PM, Adern X wrote:
>>>
>>> IMHO in the last two years laptop moved from being a music generator to the
>>> state of a music controller. In other words, if some times ago laptop music
>>> used mostly sinewaves as input, now it seems more interesting doing realtime
>>> manipulation of samples (or somenting coming from audio inputs) or play with
>>> other (real?) instruments.
>>> The result is that it seems less "laptop-music" perhaps because, for me,
>>> music using sinewaves seems in a creative cul-de-sac.
>>> Hi!
>>> Il giorno 15/dic/09, alle ore 18:38, Kim Cascone ha scritto:
>>>
>>> over the past couple of years I've noticed interesting developments in new
>>> music
>>> one is the seemingly sudden plethora of laptop musicians
>>> the other is the death of laptop music
>>>
>>> interested in hearing opinions regarding the state of new music culture and
>>> .microsound
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>
>>> Adern X
>>> http://www.xevor.net
>>> http://www.myspace.com/adernx
>>> "Boredom is the mother of creativity" (Ron Arad)
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>