<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I would advise anyone who gets a chance to try it out - it's a ton of fun.<div><br><div>It is, however, VERY unstable and thus very hard to control changes. Without any kind of loop pedal or external software or anything, it tends to be a process of (a) messing around randomly until you find an awesome stable state, and (b) carefully pushing that stable state around until you either lose it or lose interest. With respect to that, I've actually found that <i>less</i> cheap mixers are sometimes better. Doing it with a crappy second hand one seems like a good idea, but if the pots are shitty it becomes pretty difficult to hone in on anything interesting. The last mixer I tried it with would sometimes lose it's state if I bumped the table it was on....</div><div><br></div><div>And, with regard to external effects / reverb - anything that can introduce nonlinearities and then be fed back into the signal is great, but anything that introduces <i>delay</i> tends to be bad. I've tried it with, for example, cheapo digital reverbs, and sometimes the only sound you get is a tone at 1/effect latency - not interesting. Analog signal chain is the way to go.</div><div><br></div><div>- Scott<br><div><br><div><div>On Dec 14, 2010, at 6:00 AM, Andrew C. Smith wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Nakamura came to play in Brooklyn a few months back, and actually had a whole rack mount setup with digital reverb and all kinds of effects. Sort of a surprise, to me anyway (I'm only a little familiar with his music), but it was interesting how the feeding back mixer was juxtaposed with this totally stock, everyday digital reverb sound.<br><br>Also, you may just want to try asking around and seeing if you can borrow a cheap mixer and patch cables from anyone. To my knowledge, no-input feedback can't ruin a board, and most pros (even most amateurs) have a few extra small mixers sitting around. If you try a few out you may know better what to look for when you go to the music shop.<br><br>Since no one else said it yet: don't use headphones.<br><br>Good luck.<br><br>Andrew<br><br>On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Michal Seta wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally useless<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also need<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest electronics<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">increased flexibility of routing signals.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Here's one good deal for a Behringer:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://bit.ly/f4JPqy">http://bit.ly/f4JPqy</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Cheers.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">./MiS<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed <<a href="mailto:beatthefinalboss@gmail.com">beatthefinalboss@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, but I do not<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :(<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very anxious<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">to try ;)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board with an<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks again!<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--Nic<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta <<a href="mailto:mis@artengine.ca">mis@artengine.ca</a>> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hi Nic,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you plug its<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ knobs to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">shape the resulting signal.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">connections between different strips).<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ratio. You will be feeding back in no time.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">interested in Larseneurs (<a href="http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php">http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php</a>). The<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your only<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ambient noise.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Happy feedback!<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">./MiS<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed <<a href="mailto:beatthefinalboss@gmail.com">beatthefinalboss@gmail.com</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hello :)<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">recently,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">more<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">feedback<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">so<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">something<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">with this method.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">something to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">for<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thank you very much, in advance!<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--Nic<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">microsound mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound">http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">microsound mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound">http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">microsound mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound">http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound</a><br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________________<br>microsound mailing list<br><a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a><br><a href="http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound">http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound</a><br><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></body></html>