<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div>I hereby swear to never refer to the holocaust or the nazi's to make a point ever again.</div><div><br></div><div>serge</div><div><br></div><div><div><div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 1:45 PM, David Powers <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cyborgk@gmail.com">cyborgk@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#FF4B31">As per these claims that "the universe is a complete whole," I can<br> only say that if this is so, then in a world that produced Auschwitz,<br> "the universe is a complete HELL."</font><br> <br> I prefer to imagine that reality is ontologically open, creation is<br> incomplete, and freedom is a real though extremely fragile<br> possibility.<br> <br> This profoundly influences my idea of music, in that I do not believe<br> great music establishes some perfect mythical harmony between the<br> smallest details and the whole. In my view, music should struggle<br> against such ideological harmony, without necessarily abandoning all<br> structure or denying the relationships between micro and macro<br> structures. Late Beethoven piano pieces and string quartets are<br> excellent examples of such an approach.<br> <br> I agree with you to an extent on "school maths", although I personally<br> think that in the digital age, it's impossible to escape the reign of<br> mathematics, and so perhaps we shouldn't ignore math but instead try<br> to subvert it.<br> <br> PS. The idea of "Golden Ratio Disco" quite amuses me in some way,<br> though I'm somewhat frightened to hear what such a thing sounds like!<br> <div><div></div><div class="h5"><br> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Chris Bullen<br> <<a href="mailto:auralbeesty@btinternet.com">auralbeesty@btinternet.com</a>> wrote:<br> > When I first saw this appear in my mailbox, I thought it said "Golden Ratio<br> > Disco".<br> > Was not sure what it was going to be about but it looked as if this might be<br> > a kind of humorous approach or some mental piece of free/shareware. But no,<br> > it was back to the old classical attempt to find mathematical perfection.<br> > Over 30 years ago, when I was at art school, plenty of dull work was produce<br> > by colleagues claiming they were using a "Golden Section", certainly in<br> > straight painting it never made any great impression on me (one way or<br> > another), all I thought was "fuck it, school maths! I left home to get away<br> > from this".<br> > Cheers Chrisb<br> > ________________________________<br> > From: Robert Lewis <<a href="mailto:ionizing@gmail.com">ionizing@gmail.com</a>><br> > To: <a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a><br> > Sent: Sunday, 10 January, 2010 16:18:37<br> > Subject: Re: [microsound] Golden Ratio discovery [may be of interest to<br> > someone]<br> ><br> > 1) What do you mean by coherence?<br> ><br> > systematic consistency across all time and space scales<br> ><br> > 2) And how does this relate to the<br> > practice of music?<br> ><br> > the universe is a complete whole<br> ><br> > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 1:03 AM, David Powers <<a href="mailto:cyborgk@gmail.com">cyborgk@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> >><br> >> What do you mean by coherence? And how does this relate to the<br> >> practice of music?<br> >><br> >> ***<br> >><br> >> Hypothesis:<br> >> Music is not only numbers, mathematics, and structure, but also what<br> >> is irreducible to those things. The musician struggles with numbers,<br> >> until they cry out in pain. Then music becomes messianic<br> >> mathematics--the language of utopia.<br> >><br> >> ~David<br> >><br> >> On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Robert Lewis <<a href="mailto:ionizing@gmail.com">ionizing@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> >> > there are few strange coincidences in the universe, and no paradoxes but<br> >> > in<br> >> > perception. it is meaningful as another example of the golden ratio in<br> >> > the<br> >> > natural world, for those of us looking for coherence in all scales of<br> >> > nature<br> >> ><br> >> > On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 9:29 PM, David Powers <<a href="mailto:cyborgk@gmail.com">cyborgk@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> >> >><br> >> >> My first thought on reading this, is to ask whether such a discovery<br> >> >> is in any way meaningful, or whether it should be viewed as merely a<br> >> >> strange coincidence?<br> >> >><br> >> >> ~David<br> >> >><br> >> >> On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 7:56 PM, d4l3d <<a href="mailto:d4l3d@inbox.com">d4l3d@inbox.com</a>> wrote:<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > Found this interesting.<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > For those of us who have a thing for Fibonnaci/Golden Ratio, this was<br> >> >> > recently posted through Slashdot:<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> ><br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > <a href="http://esciencenews.com/articles/2010/01/07/golden.ratio.discovered.a.quantum.world" target="_blank">http://esciencenews.com/articles/2010/01/07/golden.ratio.discovered.a.quantum.world</a><br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > May be useful to someone.<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > s 4 n s [moi]<br> >> >> ><br> >> >> > ________________________________<br> >> >> > Free 3D Earth Screensaver<br> >> >> > Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at<br> >> >> > <a href="http://www.inbox.com/earth" target="_blank">www.inbox.com/earth</a><br> >> >> > _______________________________________________<br> >> >> > microsound mailing list<br> >> >> > <a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a><br> >> >> > <a href="http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound" target="_blank">http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound</a><br> >> >> ><br> >> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> >> microsound mailing list<br> >> >> <a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a><br> >> >> <a href="http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound" target="_blank">http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound</a><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> > _______________________________________________<br> >> > microsound mailing list<br> >> > <a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a><br> >> > <a href="http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound" target="_blank">http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound</a><br> >> ><br> >> ><br> >> _______________________________________________<br> >> microsound mailing list<br> >> <a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a><br> >> <a href="http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound" target="_blank">http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound</a><br> ><br> ><br> > _______________________________________________<br> > microsound mailing list<br> > <a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a><br> > <a href="http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound" target="_blank">http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound</a><br> ><br> ><br> _______________________________________________<br> microsound mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a><br> <a href="http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound" target="_blank">http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">microsound mailing list</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="mailto:microsound@microsound.org">microsound@microsound.org</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a href="http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound">http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound</a></div> </div><br></div></div></body></html>