[microsound] Thoughtless idiots who masquerade as supporters of small labels (isjtar)

Mon May 9 11:54:28 EDT 2011

automatically assuming that downloads = lost sales is not a sufficient
articulation that he's been affected directly.

On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 8:52 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:

> it's not a cliché if it affects him directly, he has hands-on experience.
>
> where it all boils down to here IMO is that we're still in a period of
> transformation of listening and purchasing habits of music.
> the cost of production have been slashed to amazing extents, the rate of
> production has gone up massively.
> sales have gone down, but they were always low for experimental music and
> since the physical medium is obsolete, brick and mortar shops are all but
> disappearing save for more dance-oriented vinyl stuff.
>
> then the problem we have is in the filtering and finding and more
> importantly the changing listening habits which do have a real impact.
> I don't listen to music in the same way at all if i have the mouse at my
> fingers or when it's playing over my system.
> it's a cultural challenge and will still take some time. the move from
> consuming to producing at least I think is great.
>
> I don't know if the perceived stasis in electronic music has to do with all
> this.
> if anyone doesn't perceive this, please do show me.
>
> I function in a subsidized environment, so I'm in a luxury position maybe,
> but for me sales in terms of money don't bother me, the lack of prolonged
> attention does.
>
> isjtar
>
> PS people should perform instead of record/produce anyway, it's the true
> way of making and experiencing music, hehe.
> and it's not about ableton live and dubstep dammit!
>
>
> On 09 May 2011, at 17:36, 3str0g3n at gmail.com wrote:
>
> Only way the OP's post could be more cliche is by using this graph:
> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110411/16551713858/new-riaa-evidence-comes-to-light-is-there-nothing-file-sharing-cant-destroy.shtml
>
> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 8:20 AM, Jeffrey Melton <jeffreymelton at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>  This thread touches on issues that many of us on here face, though with
>> differing attitudes and emotions on what the best approach may be. Making
>> art/music for-its-own-sake vs. making a living vs. getting heard vs. getting
>> paid have all been on my mind for years. (BTW, I think this *is* appropriate
>> discussion for this list as the halo activities around making music).
>> Sometimes it's a lonely venture to produce, promote and love the music we
>> must make.
>>
>> If it's the leaking that has you most upset, I'd recommend eliminating the
>> weak links in the distribution and promotion chain: physical duplication and
>> promo copies are typically where leaks occur. Consider not sending out
>> physical promo/review copies but provide streaming-only versions via
>> Bandcamp and/or Soundcloud (though these can be ripped as well. Rule of
>> thumb: if it's digital, it's rip-able. Also, ANYTHING is copyable by those
>> determined to do so -- just look at the vinyl/cassette rippers and book
>> scanners. One person's sharing is another person's piracy).
>>
>> Better yet, consider any listener a potential reviewer and make the
>> previews public. What we as a cottage industry may have lost in potential
>> revenue we could gain in social capital and network effects. Some may resent
>> copying, but being widely distributed may bring a release a larger audience
>> with more potential connections/feedback/revenue.
>>
>> If it's the costs to produce a product that have you down, consider a
>> crowd-funded approach for a project (e.g. Kickstarter.com) to minimize
>> your upfront costs and ensure you have a paying audience (it only gets made
>> if people commit their support, and they get more perks for greater
>> commitment of support). Personally I wouldn't buy a physical CD since I
>> listen to music on my computer and iOS devices, but I would consider
>> purchasing a project on cassette or vinyl, both for it being unique and the
>> experience of listening.
>>
>> There is such a glut of available music online (from free netlabels and
>> self-publishers, file sharing and pirate sites and on and on), it's
>> difficult to get heard let alone sold. Plus as stated already, the
>> shelf-life of a new release is in hours, days and weeks any more, because
>> people have such vast music libraries and attention is scarce. I'd consider
>> myself flattered if I was ever pirated (though that probably doesn't take
>> the sting out of it for you). For example, I worked for months on my 2010
>> album of ambient and minimal pieces to only ever sell ONE copy. For me,
>> number of listens/likes/links has supplanted sales/revenue as goals. A
>> release's carrying capacity isn't just in number of units moved but the
>> amount of potential exposure. I realize the perspective may be different for
>> a label than an artist. YMMV.
>>
>> Jeffrey Melton aka nofi, The Silent Stars
>>
>> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 1:18 AM, <microsound-request at or8.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 07:18:10 +0200
>>> From: isjtar <list at isjtar.org>
>>> To: microsound at microsound.org
>>> Subject: Re: [microsound] [microsound-announce] (amb) Thoughtless
>>>        idiots who      masquerade as supporters of small labels
>>> Message-ID: <33BAF211-30A9-4F13-A10C-5FFC1FF6185C at isjtar.org>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> personally, I don't spend money on music anymore (to listen to that is)
>>>
>>> however, if there would be a subscription service with a large selection
>>> of obscure stuff, I'd really dig that.
>>> experimental stuff with it's extreme highs and lows really fit this model
>>> as you don't take the same "risk" as buying an album.
>>> with some community features it would also help me find things, don't
>>> have the time anymore to be really "into it" if you know what I mean.
>>>
>>> then secondly, David, the amounts you're talking about are so low, can
>>> you not get some type of grant or a fundraising?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08 May 2011, at 16:56, David Newman wrote:
>>>
>>> > I have never illegally downloaded music - fact.
>>> >
>>> > David Newman
>>> >
>>> > http://www.audiomoves.com | Audiomoves > Digital audio solutions
>>> >
>>> > http://www.audiobulb.com | Audiobulb Records > Exploratory music
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: Maya R. Odinezenko [mailto:maya at elevatorium.org]
>>> > Sent: 08 May 2011 15:43
>>> > To: David Newman
>>> > Cc: <idm at hyperreal.org>; ambient; <
>>> microsound-announce at microsound.nexthop.net>
>>> > Subject: Re: (amb) Thoughtless idiots who masquerade as supporters of
>>> small labels
>>> >
>>> > No, I am not naive.
>>> > I've been in the industry and I know how it is.
>>> >
>>> > You're taking this way too personally, as in the person deliberately
>>> planned to hurt you and specifically you only.
>>> >
>>> > People do not share for an ego boost.  They share bc they want people
>>> to hear what they feel is great music.  And they will buy the CD.  If they
>>> don't buy today, they will tomorrow.  They *WILL* always buy.  For those who
>>> don't buy this release, they'll buy the next one.  However, as long as one
>>> puts out quality, they'll always be able to sell it.
>>> >
>>> > Do not think like a major label, bc look at the state they're all in.
>>>  They cry and cry and still make cookie cutter crap.
>>> >
>>> > For the love of music, please get off your high horse and calm down.  I
>>> bet you've downloaded music before.  You cannot say you didn't, bc anyone
>>> who owns a computer and has a brain downloads music.
>>> >
>>> > A ton of people in the industry download music.
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> > On May 7, 2011, at 12:08 PM, "David Newman" <dwnewman at clara.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Maya
>>> >>
>>> >> You are so naive
>>> >>
>>> >> The artist has made the music over a course of years. It is ambient
>>> music.
>>> >>
>>> >> He has worked on his craft to the point where a label is prepared to
>>> invest in getting it made into a CD, promoted and sold.
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't do this for the money - I do it for the love of the music. I
>>> work hours and hours and hours per week on it. As well as hold down my main
>>> job. I do it out of love for the music.
>>> >>
>>> >> But if I invest ?900 and don't receive a near break even return then I
>>> go out of business and the music is not released.... the smaller labels get
>>> forced out and we are left with myspace unsigned and the majors.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> David Newman
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.audiomoves.com | Audiomoves > Digital audio solutions
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.audiobulb.com | Audiobulb Records > Exploratory music
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> From: Maya R. Odinezenko [mailto:maya at elevatorium.org]
>>> >> Sent: 07 May 2011 16:11
>>> >> To: David Newman
>>> >> Cc: <idm at hyperreal.org>; ambient; <
>>> microsound-announce at microsound.nexthop.net>
>>> >> Subject: Re: (amb) Thoughtless idiots who masquerade as supporters of
>>> small labels
>>> >>
>>> >> Honestly, I really wouldn't complain.
>>> >>
>>> >> I know this will come off as harsh, but it really bothers me people
>>> use this list more for promoting their own stuff than just talking about
>>> ambient music.
>>> >>
>>> >> You're already investing in making music, but it sounds like you're
>>> involved more fir making some sort if cash flow as opposed to just making
>>> music for the sake of art/the love of it.
>>> >>
>>> >> If I were a musician, I'd be flattered my music was being shared.  At
>>> least it's good enough to be shared.  If people dig it, they will buy it.
>>>  There are a ton of artists I invested in after I downloaded their stuff.
>>> >>
>>> >> The investment is there for you, don't blame file sharing for losing
>>> sales.  Maybe people want to try before they buy, bc technology in this day
>>> and age allows them to do so.
>>> >>
>>> >> Just saying.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >> On May 7, 2011, at 9:27 AM, "David Newman" <dwnewman at clara.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> To the thoughtless idiots....
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So here I am 3 weeks from the release of a beautiful album by A
>>> Dancing Beggar.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://www.audiobulb.com/albums/AB036/AB036.htm
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The album has been sent out as per usual to 120 reviewers on our
>>> promo list. One or more of these people who purport to support independent
>>> music and small labels has uploaded the album onto every file sharing
>>> platform there is.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So it's out - people can help themselves for free. The ?200 I spent
>>> on postage won't get recouped, the ?750 I spent on making the CD won't get
>>> recouped.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Some people think it's easy balancing the books if you are a record
>>> small record company - I can tell you it is not. I only made 500 of these
>>> and if I don't get close to ?900 back I can see Audiobulb sinking/closing
>>> for good.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So you may be thinking why am I ranting at you? Well I don't know who
>>> has done this - they hide behind stupid names in Fileshare etc - but whoever
>>> you are - you are selfish, thoughtless and stupid.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> David Newman
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://www.audiomoves.com | Audiomoves > Digital audio solutions
>>> >>>
>>> >>> http://www.audiobulb.com | Audiobulb Records > Exploratory music
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> No virus found in this message.
>>> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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>>> 05/06/11
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > No virus found in this message.
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>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> jeffrey melton | p.o.box 10231 | fort wayne, IN | 46851-0231 | USA
>>
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