From robin at robinparmar.com  Fri Apr  1 14:03:35 2011
From: robin at robinparmar.com (Robin Parmar)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:03:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [microsound] activities in London, England 11-12 April
Message-ID: <312851.1517.qm@web39421.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am in London, England 11-12 April. If anyone knows of activities of special interest to a sound artist / electroacoustic composer then let me know!

-----
Robin Parmar
robinparmar.com


From danko.djuric at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 17:50:51 2011
From: danko.djuric at gmail.com (Kodan)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 23:50:51 +0200
Subject: [microsound] activities in London, England 11-12 April
In-Reply-To: <312851.1517.qm@web39421.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <312851.1517.qm@web39421.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=Z8Hfrrrqok5pCuXk3DMFYCtzrfw1A6J0BWKvz@mail.gmail.com>

I am in Belgrade, Serbia and I asking myself is it spam or what?
-----
Fight back spam! Download the Blue Frog.
http://www.bluesecurity.com/register/s?user=a29kYW44MTM1



2011/4/1 Robin Parmar <robin at robinparmar.com>

> I am in London, England 11-12 April. If anyone knows of activities of
> special interest to a sound artist / electroacoustic composer then let me
> know!
>
> -----
> Robin Parmar
> robinparmar.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
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From ted.pallas at gmail.com  Fri Apr  1 17:56:14 2011
From: ted.pallas at gmail.com (Ted Pallas)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 17:56:14 -0400
Subject: [microsound] activities in London, England 11-12 April
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=Z8Hfrrrqok5pCuXk3DMFYCtzrfw1A6J0BWKvz@mail.gmail.com>
References: <312851.1517.qm@web39421.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<AANLkTi=Z8Hfrrrqok5pCuXk3DMFYCtzrfw1A6J0BWKvz@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <73BB8C2C-35A5-4616-B895-728045FC0B9D@gmail.com>

Sure is, or at least it is now. 

Ted Pallas
Live Media Design
Sandwich Construction Consultant
cell - 516 286 9661

Pardon the typos, sent from my Casio SK-1

On Apr 1, 2011, at 5:50 PM, Kodan <danko.djuric at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am in Belgrade, Serbia and I asking myself is it spam or what?
> -----
> Fight back spam! Download the Blue Frog.
> http://www.bluesecurity.com/register/s?user=a29kYW44MTM1
> 
> 
> 
> 2011/4/1 Robin Parmar <robin at robinparmar.com>
> I am in London, England 11-12 April. If anyone knows of activities of special interest to a sound artist / electroacoustic composer then let me know!
> 
> -----
> Robin Parmar
> robinparmar.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
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From robin at robinparmar.com  Fri Apr  1 19:51:24 2011
From: robin at robinparmar.com (Robin Parmar)
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 16:51:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [microsound] microsound Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10447.1301694680.5607.microsound@or8.net>
Message-ID: <360662.39575.qm@web39404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Kodan <danko.djuric at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am in Belgrade, Serbia and I asking myself is it spam or what?

I do not understand how you mistake a friendly request for info as spam.

-----
Robin Parmar
robinparmar.com

From danko.djuric at gmail.com  Sat Apr  2 05:06:03 2011
From: danko.djuric at gmail.com (Kodan)
Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 11:06:03 +0200
Subject: [microsound] microsound Digest, Vol 28, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <360662.39575.qm@web39404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.10447.1301694680.5607.microsound@or8.net>
	<360662.39575.qm@web39404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=oEocZadSwcSbXjxvWKtuFzBziyw@mail.gmail.com>

I think that this is not info list but for share ideas and music.

-----
Fight back spam! Download the Blue Frog.
http://www.bluesecurity.com/register/s?user=a29kYW44MTM1



2011/4/2 Robin Parmar <robin at robinparmar.com>

> Kodan <danko.djuric at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am in Belgrade, Serbia and I asking myself is it spam or what?
>
> I do not understand how you mistake a friendly request for info as spam.
>
> -----
> Robin Parmar
> robinparmar.com
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
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From brymoxine at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  4 13:12:44 2011
From: brymoxine at yahoo.com (bryan garcia)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 10:12:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [microsound] Arduino Chip
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=e9BaRcnzjLEYM_WEFsXFdF9Af+f6YRjSdMJkM@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <275243.47455.qm@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


perhaps this has been covered -????? i haven't checked the archive.?? 

has anyone been using Arduino ? 

http://www.arduino.cc/

its a chip (hardware + open source software)? i believe used as a controller. 

i know alot of people here work with art installations, and i was wondering if anyone could share their experience working with the device.?? 

i'm going to buy one,? they are cheap.??? so.? please share as i jump blindly into this new technical area.?? 

best. 

b





--- On Tue, 3/8/11, miquel parera <computer.music.neix at gmail.com> wrote:

From: miquel parera <computer.music.neix at gmail.com>
Subject: [microsound] Pi day
To: microsound at or8.net
Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 9:54 PM

hello.
?
i want to submit a file in the project, but i have 2 questions:
?
Wath is the username and the password in the repository?
?


?

A part of the mp3 320, can add a description? What other file?

Thanks and happy 3.14! 


-- 
Creative Commons & Open Source experimental electronic & computer sounds.

http://musicnumbers.wordpress.com/




-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
microsound mailing list
microsound at microsound.org
http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
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From brymoxine at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  4 15:26:58 2011
From: brymoxine at yahoo.com (bryan garcia)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 12:26:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [microsound] Ai Wei Wei
In-Reply-To: <275243.47455.qm@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <885225.38977.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

this may be a little of topic 

but its important, and many of us here work in the arts.? 

if you haven't heard of Ai Weiwei, he is a Chinese artist.? an incredible artist if you ask me.?? i've only recently begun to investigate his work.?? 

and now he's been detained by the chinese govt.??? for reeducation ?? 

here is a TED link on Ai Weiwei. 

http://blog.ted.com/2011/04/04/ai-weiwei-detained-here-is-his-ted-film/?utm_content=awesm-bookmarklet&utm_medium=on.ted.com-static&utm_source=direct-on.ted.com

i think any relevant discussion will be applicable as he is a very inspiring person.?? please see the link when you have a minute. 

cheers.


b
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From macdara at email.com  Mon Apr  4 15:49:01 2011
From: macdara at email.com (macdara at email.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 15:49:01 -0400
Subject: [microsound] Ai Wei Wei
In-Reply-To: <885225.38977.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CDC1187835247B-1F20-42A7@web-mmc-d01.sysops.aol.com>


"society sacrifices it's environment,education and moral stance just to try to become rich"

This is ultimately destructive of cultural and social fabrics, I think awareness of how important freedom is to any human is vital.






-----Original Message-----
From: bryan garcia <brymoxine at yahoo.com>
To: microsound at microsound.org
Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 8:26 pm
Subject: Re: [microsound] Ai Wei Wei




this may be a little of topic 

but its important, and many of us here work in the arts.  

if you haven't heard of Ai Weiwei, he is a Chinese artist.  an incredible artist if you ask me.   i've only recently begun to investigate his work.   

and now he's been detained by the chinese govt.    for reeducation ?  

here is a TED link on Ai Weiwei. 

http://blog.ted.com/2011/04/04/ai-weiwei-detained-here-is-his-ted-film/?utm_content=awesm-bookmarklet&utm_medium=on.ted.com-static&utm_source=direct-on.ted.com

i think any relevant discussion will be applicable as he is a very inspiring person.   please see the link when you have a minute. 

cheers.


b




_______________________________________________
icrosound mailing list
icrosound at microsound.org
ttp://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

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From mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es  Mon Apr  4 15:51:09 2011
From: mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es (Jaime Munarriz Ortiz)
Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 21:51:09 +0200
Subject: [microsound] Arduino Chip
Message-ID: <4D9A212D.8020901@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es>

I've connected it to my MS20, sending CV to control pitch from Processing.
But it doesn't output real voltage changes, it makes pulse width 
modulation so the average voltage is more or less.
The signal is blocky , a kind of square wave. I think it could be used 
to control a transistor wich could trasmit a smooth voltage control 
signal, but I haven't tested it.
You can also use it as a MIDI interface. But it is better suited to 
control sensors and other physical input information. So you can build a 
new controller instrument, connected to Pd or Midi or Max or Osc or...

From brymoxine at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  4 15:58:46 2011
From: brymoxine at yahoo.com (bryan garcia)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 12:58:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [microsound] Ai Wei Wei
In-Reply-To: <8CDC1187835247B-1F20-42A7@web-mmc-d01.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <359913.62800.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

i wish bruce nauman would make a neon tube sculpture of his and your quotes. 


--- On Mon, 4/4/11, macdara at email.com <macdara at email.com> wrote:

From: macdara at email.com <macdara at email.com>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Ai Wei Wei
To: microsound at microsound.org
Date: Monday, April 4, 2011, 2:49 PM


"society sacrifices it's environment,education and moral stance just to try to become rich"


?


This is ultimately destructive of cultural and social fabrics, I think awareness of how important freedom is to any human is vital.




?









-----Original Message-----

From: bryan garcia <brymoxine at yahoo.com>

To: microsound at microsound.org

Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 8:26 pm

Subject: Re: [microsound] Ai Wei Wei









this may be a little of topic 



but its important, and many of us here work in the arts.? 



if you haven't heard of Ai Weiwei, he is a Chinese artist.? an incredible artist if you ask me.?? i've only recently begun to investigate his work.?? 



and now he's been detained by the chinese govt.??? for reeducation ?? 



here is a TED link on Ai Weiwei. 



http://blog.ted.com/2011/04/04/ai-weiwei-detained-here-is-his-ted-film/?utm_content=awesm-bookmarklet&utm_medium=on.ted.com-static&utm_source=direct-on.ted.com



i think any relevant discussion will be applicable as he is a very inspiring person.?? please see the link when you have a minute. 



cheers.





b




_______________________________________________
microsound mailing list
microsound at microsound.org
http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound




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From prolepsis at gmail.com  Mon Apr  4 16:06:47 2011
From: prolepsis at gmail.com (Al Matthews)
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 16:06:47 -0400
Subject: [microsound] Ai Wei Wei
In-Reply-To: <8CDC1187835247B-1F20-42A7@web-mmc-d01.sysops.aol.com>
References: <885225.38977.qm@web33102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<8CDC1187835247B-1F20-42A7@web-mmc-d01.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimysAdvEyC2DRRg9be0_UDZPqLzzw@mail.gmail.com>

Personally I'm just feeling angry and ill, about this, today. For me it gets
my goat in a lot of ways. I suppose I shouldn't admit that in presence of
the internet.

1) I can't imagine that political detention in China or any related client
is at all pleasant.
2) I find it difficult to think about an information world where
Google-realpolitik can become a noble entity.
3) I'll go ahead and call my mindset on these issues Trevor
Paglen-sympathetic, and thus, most things feel like lip service.

-----Original Message-----
> From: bryan garcia <brymoxine at yahoo.com>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 8:26 pm
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Ai Wei Wei
>
>   this may be a little of topic
>
> but its important, and many of us here work in the arts.
>
> if you haven't heard of Ai Weiwei, he is a Chinese artist.  an incredible
> artist if you ask me.   i've only recently begun to investigate his work.
>
> and now he's been detained by the chinese govt.    for reeducation ?
>
> here is a TED link on Ai Weiwei.
>
>
> http://blog.ted.com/2011/04/04/ai-weiwei-detained-here-is-his-ted-film/?utm_content=awesm-bookmarklet&utm_medium=on.ted.com-static&utm_source=direct-on.ted.com
>
> i think any relevant discussion will be applicable as he is a very
> inspiring person.   please see the link when you have a minute.
>
> cheers.
>
>
> b
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing listmicrosound at microsound.orghttp://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>


-- 
Al Matthews
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From mmi at art.pte.hu  Tue Apr  5 01:33:06 2011
From: mmi at art.pte.hu (Kovacs Balazs)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 07:33:06 +0200
Subject: [microsound] Arduino Chip
In-Reply-To: <275243.47455.qm@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <275243.47455.qm@web33106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4D9AA992.4040009@art.pte.hu>

  hi,

>
> has anyone been using Arduino ?
>
me.

pros:
- it's good to build an interface around, because the 6 analog I/o is 10 
bit (midi is 7 bit)
in resolution
- it can run standalone
-  the 12 digital i/o can drive 12 servos (for building robot-musicians 
etc), can produce
12 pwm signals or can handle 12 led, button etc.

contra:
- it converts You from a glich artist to a diy artist ;)

some works:
maxmsp controlled vinyl player
http://kbalazs.periszkopradio.hu/computer-controlled-vinyl-player/?lang=en
sensor controlled ventillators
http://kbalazs.periszkopradio.hu/i-se-you-ars-geometrica-july-2010/?lang=en

cheers,
Bal?zs
> http://www.arduino.cc/
>
> its a chip (hardware + open source software)  i believe used as a 
> controller.
>
> i know alot of people here work with art installations, and i was 
> wondering if anyone could share their experience working with the device.
>
> i'm going to buy one,  they are cheap.    so.  please share as i jump 
> blindly into this new technical area.
>
> best.
>
> b
>


-- 

PTE Muveszeti Kar, Media- es Alkalmazott Muveszetek Intezete
PTE Faculty of Arts, Institute for Media and Applied Arts
H-7624 Pecs, Damjanich u. 30.
tel/fax:+36(72)501540
mobil:+36(20)2331867
e-mail: mmi at art.pte.hu
www: http://www.art.pte.hu/menu/92
blog: http://art.pte.hu/211orchestra/


From mmi at art.pte.hu  Tue Apr  5 01:38:37 2011
From: mmi at art.pte.hu (Kovacs Balazs)
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 07:38:37 +0200
Subject: [microsound] Arduino Chip
In-Reply-To: <4D9A212D.8020901@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es>
References: <4D9A212D.8020901@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es>
Message-ID: <4D9AAADD.7090407@art.pte.hu>

  hallo,

2011.04.04. 21:51 keltez?ssel, Jaime Munarriz Ortiz ?rta:
> I've connected it to my MS20, sending CV to control pitch from 
> Processing.
> But it doesn't output real voltage changes, it makes pulse width 
> modulation so the average voltage is more or less.
> The signal is blocky , a kind of square wave.
yes, the digital pins output PWM signals 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation)
at 0/5v. You need a dc converter for example a dc motor shield like of 
Adafruit
(http://www.ladyada.net/make/mshield/)

best
Bal?zs



-- 

PTE Muveszeti Kar, Media- es Alkalmazott Muveszetek Intezete
PTE Faculty of Arts, Institute for Media and Applied Arts
H-7624 Pecs, Damjanich u. 30.
tel/fax:+36(72)501540
mobil:+36(20)2331867
e-mail: mmi at art.pte.hu
www: http://www.art.pte.hu/menu/92
blog: http://art.pte.hu/211orchestra/


From thinksamuel at yahoo.com  Sat Apr  9 15:21:15 2011
From: thinksamuel at yahoo.com (Samuel van ransbeeck)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 12:21:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
Message-ID: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello

At my university we will do a project where we will be recreating the software 
for Risset's music for piano and disklavier from the eighties. This will involve 
porting the patches to MaxMSP 5. Of course we will have to write report and 
papers about it. Now, I was wondering if anyone could suggest me interesting 
literature about the recreation of old electronic music.

Thanks
Samuel Van Ransbeeck
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From l.vanderwee at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 16:33:51 2011
From: l.vanderwee at gmail.com (Laurens van der Wee)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 21:33:51 +0100
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
In-Reply-To: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9D03EAB3-9D55-4791-A330-100325BFFA1A@gmail.com>


Hi,

There is a series of papers about the reconstruction of Chowning's Stria. I think those are very relevant for you.

hth,
laurens.



On 9 apr 2011, at 20:21, Samuel van ransbeeck wrote:

> Hello
> 
> At my university we will do a project where we will be recreating the software for Risset's music for piano and disklavier from the eighties. This will involve porting the patches to MaxMSP 5. Of course we will have to write report and papers about it. Now, I was wondering if anyone could suggest me interesting literature about the recreation of old electronic music.
> 
> Thanks
> Samuel Van Ransbeeck
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

laurens.

____

t:   (+31) 6 120 59 134
e:  l.vanderwee at gmail.com
w: www.laurensvanderwee.nl
s:  laurensvanderwee

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From mis at artengine.ca  Sun Apr 10 09:17:15 2011
From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 09:17:15 -0400
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
In-Reply-To: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTindnci-iEBXBeytaaojkieWK5xmBg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Samuel,

I don't know about any literature about recreating electronic music but I
know of at least another effort of this kind:
http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/pdrp/latest/files/doc/

I wonder why MaxMSP is being used for this.  I would have thought that an
effort to recreate (and perhaps archive) some historical music that requires
to be run in software would use open source software in order to 1)
potentially reach wider audience and 2) ensure that the music can be
performed in unforeseeable future, even if some technology becomes obsolete.
 The chances of reviving a dead proprietary software are rather slim,
especially if the source code is not available for public consumption.

So, for instance, Pd is free, open source, runs on almost all possible
operating systems and platforms including iOs, Android etc.  Wouldn't it be
more suitable for this kind of project?  Of course all my arguments are moot
if the only reason for this recreation is an exercise to learn MaxMSP and is
not intended to be published to a wider audience, which would be rather
unfortunate.

Just wondering...

Best,
./MiS

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Samuel van ransbeeck
<thinksamuel at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Hello
>
> At my university we will do a project where we will be recreating the
> software for Risset's music for piano and disklavier from the eighties. This
> will involve porting the patches to MaxMSP 5. Of course we will have to
> write report and papers about it. Now, I was wondering if anyone could
> suggest me interesting literature about the recreation of old electronic
> music.
>
> Thanks
> Samuel Van Ransbeeck
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
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From mis at artengine.ca  Sun Apr 10 09:17:15 2011
From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 09:17:15 -0400
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
In-Reply-To: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTindnci-iEBXBeytaaojkieWK5xmBg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Samuel,

I don't know about any literature about recreating electronic music but I
know of at least another effort of this kind:
http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/pdrp/latest/files/doc/

I wonder why MaxMSP is being used for this.  I would have thought that an
effort to recreate (and perhaps archive) some historical music that requires
to be run in software would use open source software in order to 1)
potentially reach wider audience and 2) ensure that the music can be
performed in unforeseeable future, even if some technology becomes obsolete.
 The chances of reviving a dead proprietary software are rather slim,
especially if the source code is not available for public consumption.

So, for instance, Pd is free, open source, runs on almost all possible
operating systems and platforms including iOs, Android etc.  Wouldn't it be
more suitable for this kind of project?  Of course all my arguments are moot
if the only reason for this recreation is an exercise to learn MaxMSP and is
not intended to be published to a wider audience, which would be rather
unfortunate.

Just wondering...

Best,
./MiS

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Samuel van ransbeeck
<thinksamuel at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Hello
>
> At my university we will do a project where we will be recreating the
> software for Risset's music for piano and disklavier from the eighties. This
> will involve porting the patches to MaxMSP 5. Of course we will have to
> write report and papers about it. Now, I was wondering if anyone could
> suggest me interesting literature about the recreation of old electronic
> music.
>
> Thanks
> Samuel Van Ransbeeck
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
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From mis at artengine.ca  Sun Apr 10 20:31:58 2011
From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 20:31:58 -0400
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
In-Reply-To: <394503.66356.qm@web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTindnci-iEBXBeytaaojkieWK5xmBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<394503.66356.qm@web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimhzTS7emidZM5q5LMb2wzUdctQyg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Samuel van ransbeeck <thinksamuel at yahoo.com
> wrote:

> Hello Michal
>
> interesting point you raise there. I have thought of using PD personally
> but always I think: what about support? I know PD has a large user-base but
> still I think that Max is superior;
>
*
*
*Superior* is a very strong word...  let's see...


>  Why? 1) A large user base as well
>

Ok, so Pd is equal in superiority,


> 2) You buy a pretty expensive product, so you are entitled a good
> functioning program.
>

Have you ever read the MaxMSP license agreement?  By using the software you
agree to use it "as is".  No one can guarantee good functioning of a
software (and in my experience, MaxMSP has its flaws and bugs, enough to
look up the updates change logs).


> Cycling HAS to respond your emails, while PD has not a full time support
> staff.
>

Yes, cycling74 will respond to emails but only for a limited time and *only* if
you are a license owner (i.e. will they support me trying to get something
running with a runtime version of Max?  Will you answer my emails and help
me run your patches in runtime?).

Now, I think that is it only natural that we (artists) take other people's
(artistic) work and we get inspired, we decompose, recompose, mashup etc.  I
could, for instance, download the Pd repertory project, install Pd, look at
the patches, decompose, get inspired and come up with some composition +
patch that is somehow derived from a piece I liked.  If I wanted to that
with something that was provided as MaxMSP patches, I would also need to buy
either a new computer or a new operating system (because I run linux) and
buy MaxMSP license.  What if, later, I change my mind and do not want to be
inspired anymore...  do I get a refund?

This is all assuming (perhaps wrongly) that your intention is to "port"
electronic music *and* make it available for study,  deconstruction and the
like.  Because maybe you will simply make   runtime binaries of that stuff
and not share the patches at all, which is fine, and in that case all my
points are invalidated.


>
> If you are thinking of open-source software, I would suggest looking to
> Faust (Faustworks). You program your audio stuff in C++ and then you can
> export it as an external or VST and additionally, it makes a mathematical
> abstraction of your program.
>

Yes.  You can.  I only mentioned Pd because it is "syntactically" similar to
MaxMSP.  It could be any programming language.


>
> In general, every language becomes obsolete one time. We have to work with
> the current language and in 10, 20 years, there will be a new 'recreation'
> of the music.
>

Yes, that's my point, actually.  The music that was done with CSound 15
(maybe more?) years ago, can still be parsed and rendered today.  There are
still people today using such obsolete languages as Lisp and Forth
(sometimes even for music!).  In any case, you are free to use whatever
software you wish, I was just curious about the choice of software.  I think
that using an expensive software because the company's full-time staff is
obliged to answer support emails is a rather weak reason to choose one
software over another*.  *Perhaps there are other reasons?

Best,
./MiS
*
*
*
*
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From noisesmith at gmail.com  Sun Apr 10 21:37:05 2011
From: noisesmith at gmail.com (Justin Glenn Smith)
Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 18:37:05 -0700
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimhzTS7emidZM5q5LMb2wzUdctQyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<BANLkTindnci-iEBXBeytaaojkieWK5xmBg@mail.gmail.com>	<394503.66356.qm@web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTimhzTS7emidZM5q5LMb2wzUdctQyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DA25B41.1040606@gmail.com>

I think it is salient here that pd was written by the very same Miller S. Puckett that the MSP part of Max/MSP is named after. And it was made in a large part for this very reason of being able to preserve tools and techniques of creating electronic music for posterity. Implementing your work in a closed and proprietary platform is embedding a self destruct mechanism into your work. It isn't guaranteed to go off, but historically it pretty much always has.

If you don't care about history or preservation of artistic work then why are you even trying to recreate things from the past?

Michal Seta wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Samuel van ransbeeck <thinksamuel at yahoo.com
>> wrote:
> 
>> Hello Michal
>>
>> interesting point you raise there. I have thought of using PD personally
>> but always I think: what about support? I know PD has a large user-base but
>> still I think that Max is superior;
>>
> *
> *
> *Superior* is a very strong word...  let's see...
> 
> 
>>  Why? 1) A large user base as well
>>
> 
> Ok, so Pd is equal in superiority,
> 
> 
>> 2) You buy a pretty expensive product, so you are entitled a good
>> functioning program.
>>
> 
> Have you ever read the MaxMSP license agreement?  By using the software you
> agree to use it "as is".  No one can guarantee good functioning of a
> software (and in my experience, MaxMSP has its flaws and bugs, enough to
> look up the updates change logs).
> 
> 
>> Cycling HAS to respond your emails, while PD has not a full time support
>> staff.
>>
> 
> Yes, cycling74 will respond to emails but only for a limited time and *only* if
> you are a license owner (i.e. will they support me trying to get something
> running with a runtime version of Max?  Will you answer my emails and help
> me run your patches in runtime?).
> 
> Now, I think that is it only natural that we (artists) take other people's
> (artistic) work and we get inspired, we decompose, recompose, mashup etc.  I
> could, for instance, download the Pd repertory project, install Pd, look at
> the patches, decompose, get inspired and come up with some composition +
> patch that is somehow derived from a piece I liked.  If I wanted to that
> with something that was provided as MaxMSP patches, I would also need to buy
> either a new computer or a new operating system (because I run linux) and
> buy MaxMSP license.  What if, later, I change my mind and do not want to be
> inspired anymore...  do I get a refund?
> 
> This is all assuming (perhaps wrongly) that your intention is to "port"
> electronic music *and* make it available for study,  deconstruction and the
> like.  Because maybe you will simply make   runtime binaries of that stuff
> and not share the patches at all, which is fine, and in that case all my
> points are invalidated.
> 
> 
>> If you are thinking of open-source software, I would suggest looking to
>> Faust (Faustworks). You program your audio stuff in C++ and then you can
>> export it as an external or VST and additionally, it makes a mathematical
>> abstraction of your program.
>>
> 
> Yes.  You can.  I only mentioned Pd because it is "syntactically" similar to
> MaxMSP.  It could be any programming language.
> 
> 
>> In general, every language becomes obsolete one time. We have to work with
>> the current language and in 10, 20 years, there will be a new 'recreation'
>> of the music.
>>
> 
> Yes, that's my point, actually.  The music that was done with CSound 15
> (maybe more?) years ago, can still be parsed and rendered today.  There are
> still people today using such obsolete languages as Lisp and Forth
> (sometimes even for music!).  In any case, you are free to use whatever
> software you wish, I was just curious about the choice of software.  I think
> that using an expensive software because the company's full-time staff is
> obliged to answer support emails is a rather weak reason to choose one
> software over another*.  *Perhaps there are other reasons?
> 
> Best,
> ./MiS
> *
> *
> *
> *
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From list at isjtar.org  Mon Apr 11 09:15:58 2011
From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:15:58 +0200
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
In-Reply-To: <4DA25B41.1040606@gmail.com>
References: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<BANLkTindnci-iEBXBeytaaojkieWK5xmBg@mail.gmail.com>	<394503.66356.qm@web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTimhzTS7emidZM5q5LMb2wzUdctQyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DA25B41.1040606@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F0419130-FA10-4758-9AD5-DAA343A3EF69@isjtar.org>

i agree, I dislike pd with a passion, but such a project has all the reasons to be written in free software.
why not do it in SuperCollider?
 
On 11 Apr 2011, at 03:37, Justin Glenn Smith wrote:

> I think it is salient here that pd was written by the very same Miller S. Puckett that the MSP part of Max/MSP is named after. And it was made in a large part for this very reason of being able to preserve tools and techniques of creating electronic music for posterity. Implementing your work in a closed and proprietary platform is embedding a self destruct mechanism into your work. It isn't guaranteed to go off, but historically it pretty much always has.
> 
> If you don't care about history or preservation of artistic work then why are you even trying to recreate things from the past?
> 
> Michal Seta wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Samuel van ransbeeck <thinksamuel at yahoo.com
>>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello Michal
>>> 
>>> interesting point you raise there. I have thought of using PD personally
>>> but always I think: what about support? I know PD has a large user-base but
>>> still I think that Max is superior;
>>> 
>> *
>> *
>> *Superior* is a very strong word...  let's see...
>> 
>> 
>>> Why? 1) A large user base as well
>>> 
>> 
>> Ok, so Pd is equal in superiority,
>> 
>> 
>>> 2) You buy a pretty expensive product, so you are entitled a good
>>> functioning program.
>>> 
>> 
>> Have you ever read the MaxMSP license agreement?  By using the software you
>> agree to use it "as is".  No one can guarantee good functioning of a
>> software (and in my experience, MaxMSP has its flaws and bugs, enough to
>> look up the updates change logs).
>> 
>> 
>>> Cycling HAS to respond your emails, while PD has not a full time support
>>> staff.
>>> 
>> 
>> Yes, cycling74 will respond to emails but only for a limited time and *only* if
>> you are a license owner (i.e. will they support me trying to get something
>> running with a runtime version of Max?  Will you answer my emails and help
>> me run your patches in runtime?).
>> 
>> Now, I think that is it only natural that we (artists) take other people's
>> (artistic) work and we get inspired, we decompose, recompose, mashup etc.  I
>> could, for instance, download the Pd repertory project, install Pd, look at
>> the patches, decompose, get inspired and come up with some composition +
>> patch that is somehow derived from a piece I liked.  If I wanted to that
>> with something that was provided as MaxMSP patches, I would also need to buy
>> either a new computer or a new operating system (because I run linux) and
>> buy MaxMSP license.  What if, later, I change my mind and do not want to be
>> inspired anymore...  do I get a refund?
>> 
>> This is all assuming (perhaps wrongly) that your intention is to "port"
>> electronic music *and* make it available for study,  deconstruction and the
>> like.  Because maybe you will simply make   runtime binaries of that stuff
>> and not share the patches at all, which is fine, and in that case all my
>> points are invalidated.
>> 
>> 
>>> If you are thinking of open-source software, I would suggest looking to
>>> Faust (Faustworks). You program your audio stuff in C++ and then you can
>>> export it as an external or VST and additionally, it makes a mathematical
>>> abstraction of your program.
>>> 
>> 
>> Yes.  You can.  I only mentioned Pd because it is "syntactically" similar to
>> MaxMSP.  It could be any programming language.
>> 
>> 
>>> In general, every language becomes obsolete one time. We have to work with
>>> the current language and in 10, 20 years, there will be a new 'recreation'
>>> of the music.
>>> 
>> 
>> Yes, that's my point, actually.  The music that was done with CSound 15
>> (maybe more?) years ago, can still be parsed and rendered today.  There are
>> still people today using such obsolete languages as Lisp and Forth
>> (sometimes even for music!).  In any case, you are free to use whatever
>> software you wish, I was just curious about the choice of software.  I think
>> that using an expensive software because the company's full-time staff is
>> obliged to answer support emails is a rather weak reason to choose one
>> software over another*.  *Perhaps there are other reasons?
>> 
>> Best,
>> ./MiS
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> *
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From cyborgk at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 12:37:14 2011
From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 11:37:14 -0500
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
In-Reply-To: <F0419130-FA10-4758-9AD5-DAA343A3EF69@isjtar.org>
References: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTindnci-iEBXBeytaaojkieWK5xmBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<394503.66356.qm@web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTimhzTS7emidZM5q5LMb2wzUdctQyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DA25B41.1040606@gmail.com>
	<F0419130-FA10-4758-9AD5-DAA343A3EF69@isjtar.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim8jS9seDajdW-MjNunzyjEgs8X4Q@mail.gmail.com>

Can I inquire as to what would give you such strong feelings on PD?

I wouldn't suggest it for everything, but it can really do amazing
things and as a dataflow language it is far superior to Max/MSP due to
the fact that it allows for a much more logical programming style
where Max/MSP has many objects that behave in bizarre ways, leading to
people creating really messy / nonsensical patches.


~David

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:15 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
> i agree, I dislike pd with a passion, but such a project has all the reasons to be written in free software.
> why not do it in SuperCollider?
>
> On 11 Apr 2011, at 03:37, Justin Glenn Smith wrote:
>
>> I think it is salient here that pd was written by the very same Miller S. Puckett that the MSP part of Max/MSP is named after. And it was made in a large part for this very reason of being able to preserve tools and techniques of creating electronic music for posterity. Implementing your work in a closed and proprietary platform is embedding a self destruct mechanism into your work. It isn't guaranteed to go off, but historically it pretty much always has.
>>
>> If you don't care about history or preservation of artistic work then why are you even trying to recreate things from the past?
>>
>> Michal Seta wrote:
>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Samuel van ransbeeck <thinksamuel at yahoo.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Michal
>>>>
>>>> interesting point you raise there. I have thought of using PD personally
>>>> but always I think: what about support? I know PD has a large user-base but
>>>> still I think that Max is superior;
>>>>
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *Superior* is a very strong word... ?let's see...
>>>
>>>
>>>> Why? 1) A large user base as well
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, so Pd is equal in superiority,
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2) You buy a pretty expensive product, so you are entitled a good
>>>> functioning program.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Have you ever read the MaxMSP license agreement? ?By using the software you
>>> agree to use it "as is". ?No one can guarantee good functioning of a
>>> software (and in my experience, MaxMSP has its flaws and bugs, enough to
>>> look up the updates change logs).
>>>
>>>
>>>> Cycling HAS to respond your emails, while PD has not a full time support
>>>> staff.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, cycling74 will respond to emails but only for a limited time and *only* if
>>> you are a license owner (i.e. will they support me trying to get something
>>> running with a runtime version of Max? ?Will you answer my emails and help
>>> me run your patches in runtime?).
>>>
>>> Now, I think that is it only natural that we (artists) take other people's
>>> (artistic) work and we get inspired, we decompose, recompose, mashup etc. ?I
>>> could, for instance, download the Pd repertory project, install Pd, look at
>>> the patches, decompose, get inspired and come up with some composition +
>>> patch that is somehow derived from a piece I liked. ?If I wanted to that
>>> with something that was provided as MaxMSP patches, I would also need to buy
>>> either a new computer or a new operating system (because I run linux) and
>>> buy MaxMSP license. ?What if, later, I change my mind and do not want to be
>>> inspired anymore... ?do I get a refund?
>>>
>>> This is all assuming (perhaps wrongly) that your intention is to "port"
>>> electronic music *and* make it available for study, ?deconstruction and the
>>> like. ?Because maybe you will simply make ? runtime binaries of that stuff
>>> and not share the patches at all, which is fine, and in that case all my
>>> points are invalidated.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you are thinking of open-source software, I would suggest looking to
>>>> Faust (Faustworks). You program your audio stuff in C++ and then you can
>>>> export it as an external or VST and additionally, it makes a mathematical
>>>> abstraction of your program.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes. ?You can. ?I only mentioned Pd because it is "syntactically" similar to
>>> MaxMSP. ?It could be any programming language.
>>>
>>>
>>>> In general, every language becomes obsolete one time. We have to work with
>>>> the current language and in 10, 20 years, there will be a new 'recreation'
>>>> of the music.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that's my point, actually. ?The music that was done with CSound 15
>>> (maybe more?) years ago, can still be parsed and rendered today. ?There are
>>> still people today using such obsolete languages as Lisp and Forth
>>> (sometimes even for music!). ?In any case, you are free to use whatever
>>> software you wish, I was just curious about the choice of software. ?I think
>>> that using an expensive software because the company's full-time staff is
>>> obliged to answer support emails is a rather weak reason to choose one
>>> software over another*. ?*Perhaps there are other reasons?
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> ./MiS
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>

From list at isjtar.org  Mon Apr 11 13:00:27 2011
From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:00:27 +0200
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim8jS9seDajdW-MjNunzyjEgs8X4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTindnci-iEBXBeytaaojkieWK5xmBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<394503.66356.qm@web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTimhzTS7emidZM5q5LMb2wzUdctQyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DA25B41.1040606@gmail.com>
	<F0419130-FA10-4758-9AD5-DAA343A3EF69@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTim8jS9seDajdW-MjNunzyjEgs8X4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <829F582E-5E8E-4DD5-8274-34A89A75725A@isjtar.org>

I used to be pretty heavily into max-msp, sorta made a living with it.
I ditched it, because I found it cumbersome for some things, same as PD really and the closed nature also annoyed me.
For ease of use and combining media it's really good. People make crappy patches in PD as well and you can program in good or bad ways in any environment, I don't think PD has any basic objects Max doesn't have, a couple are slightly different. What I dislike it for is the combination of a horrible interface (in a graphical environment that just doesn't make sense) the obscurity of docs (which have come a long way) and external libraries.
Now I do SuperCollider and it kicks the pants off both of those for sound work, sucks for hand-built interfaces though and the learning curve is steep...

to get back on topic, I made a piece for 15 SE/30's, running Max 3.5 on system 6 or 7. Cycling only gave us 2 (!) licenses after a friend of David Z contacted them for us, they didn't want to at first.
In the end we're very happy with that and with the runtime we still got up on the old machines, but clearly this sort of thing is a problem for a project of this nature. 


On 11 Apr 2011, at 18:37, David Powers wrote:

> Can I inquire as to what would give you such strong feelings on PD?
> 
> I wouldn't suggest it for everything, but it can really do amazing
> things and as a dataflow language it is far superior to Max/MSP due to
> the fact that it allows for a much more logical programming style
> where Max/MSP has many objects that behave in bizarre ways, leading to
> people creating really messy / nonsensical patches.
> 
> 
> ~David
> 
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:15 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>> i agree, I dislike pd with a passion, but such a project has all the reasons to be written in free software.
>> why not do it in SuperCollider?
>> 
>> On 11 Apr 2011, at 03:37, Justin Glenn Smith wrote:
>> 
>>> I think it is salient here that pd was written by the very same Miller S. Puckett that the MSP part of Max/MSP is named after. And it was made in a large part for this very reason of being able to preserve tools and techniques of creating electronic music for posterity. Implementing your work in a closed and proprietary platform is embedding a self destruct mechanism into your work. It isn't guaranteed to go off, but historically it pretty much always has.
>>> 
>>> If you don't care about history or preservation of artistic work then why are you even trying to recreate things from the past?
>>> 
>>> Michal Seta wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Samuel van ransbeeck <thinksamuel at yahoo.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello Michal
>>>>> 
>>>>> interesting point you raise there. I have thought of using PD personally
>>>>> but always I think: what about support? I know PD has a large user-base but
>>>>> still I think that Max is superior;
>>>>> 
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *Superior* is a very strong word...  let's see...
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Why? 1) A large user base as well
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ok, so Pd is equal in superiority,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 2) You buy a pretty expensive product, so you are entitled a good
>>>>> functioning program.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Have you ever read the MaxMSP license agreement?  By using the software you
>>>> agree to use it "as is".  No one can guarantee good functioning of a
>>>> software (and in my experience, MaxMSP has its flaws and bugs, enough to
>>>> look up the updates change logs).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Cycling HAS to respond your emails, while PD has not a full time support
>>>>> staff.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, cycling74 will respond to emails but only for a limited time and *only* if
>>>> you are a license owner (i.e. will they support me trying to get something
>>>> running with a runtime version of Max?  Will you answer my emails and help
>>>> me run your patches in runtime?).
>>>> 
>>>> Now, I think that is it only natural that we (artists) take other people's
>>>> (artistic) work and we get inspired, we decompose, recompose, mashup etc.  I
>>>> could, for instance, download the Pd repertory project, install Pd, look at
>>>> the patches, decompose, get inspired and come up with some composition +
>>>> patch that is somehow derived from a piece I liked.  If I wanted to that
>>>> with something that was provided as MaxMSP patches, I would also need to buy
>>>> either a new computer or a new operating system (because I run linux) and
>>>> buy MaxMSP license.  What if, later, I change my mind and do not want to be
>>>> inspired anymore...  do I get a refund?
>>>> 
>>>> This is all assuming (perhaps wrongly) that your intention is to "port"
>>>> electronic music *and* make it available for study,  deconstruction and the
>>>> like.  Because maybe you will simply make   runtime binaries of that stuff
>>>> and not share the patches at all, which is fine, and in that case all my
>>>> points are invalidated.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> If you are thinking of open-source software, I would suggest looking to
>>>>> Faust (Faustworks). You program your audio stuff in C++ and then you can
>>>>> export it as an external or VST and additionally, it makes a mathematical
>>>>> abstraction of your program.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Yes.  You can.  I only mentioned Pd because it is "syntactically" similar to
>>>> MaxMSP.  It could be any programming language.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> In general, every language becomes obsolete one time. We have to work with
>>>>> the current language and in 10, 20 years, there will be a new 'recreation'
>>>>> of the music.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, that's my point, actually.  The music that was done with CSound 15
>>>> (maybe more?) years ago, can still be parsed and rendered today.  There are
>>>> still people today using such obsolete languages as Lisp and Forth
>>>> (sometimes even for music!).  In any case, you are free to use whatever
>>>> software you wish, I was just curious about the choice of software.  I think
>>>> that using an expensive software because the company's full-time staff is
>>>> obliged to answer support emails is a rather weak reason to choose one
>>>> software over another*.  *Perhaps there are other reasons?
>>>> 
>>>> Best,
>>>> ./MiS
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From cyborgk at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 13:17:44 2011
From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 12:17:44 -0500
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
In-Reply-To: <829F582E-5E8E-4DD5-8274-34A89A75725A@isjtar.org>
References: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTindnci-iEBXBeytaaojkieWK5xmBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<394503.66356.qm@web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTimhzTS7emidZM5q5LMb2wzUdctQyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DA25B41.1040606@gmail.com>
	<F0419130-FA10-4758-9AD5-DAA343A3EF69@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTim8jS9seDajdW-MjNunzyjEgs8X4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<829F582E-5E8E-4DD5-8274-34A89A75725A@isjtar.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikKra+0igvP0Vxag_U35c0E8K4HHw@mail.gmail.com>

What you are saying makes sense... I actually used PD mostly for
either visuals, or to process midi received from me playing a keyboard
and controllers with knobs and faders, and then send MIDI or OSC
events into some host that contains either some modular setup or a
bunch of VST's and sampled instruments... It worked great for those
applications.

So I have to admit that I wasn't actually doing much in the way of
proper synthesis, not was the user interface much of an issue for the
things I was creating. But I certainly can't think of any way I could
have created the visuals except with Max+Jitter which is quite
expensive as has been pointed out. For doing straight DSP I do think
PD can be a bit cumbersome.

~David

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:00 PM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
> I used to be pretty heavily into max-msp, sorta made a living with it.
> I ditched it, because I found it cumbersome for some things, same as PD really and the closed nature also annoyed me.
> For ease of use and combining media it's really good. People make crappy patches in PD as well and you can program in good or bad ways in any environment, I don't think PD has any basic objects Max doesn't have, a couple are slightly different. What I dislike it for is the combination of a horrible interface (in a graphical environment that just doesn't make sense) the obscurity of docs (which have come a long way) and external libraries.
> Now I do SuperCollider and it kicks the pants off both of those for sound work, sucks for hand-built interfaces though and the learning curve is steep...
>
> to get back on topic, I made a piece for 15 SE/30's, running Max 3.5 on system 6 or 7. Cycling only gave us 2 (!) licenses after a friend of David Z contacted them for us, they didn't want to at first.
> In the end we're very happy with that and with the runtime we still got up on the old machines, but clearly this sort of thing is a problem for a project of this nature.
>
>
> On 11 Apr 2011, at 18:37, David Powers wrote:
>
>> Can I inquire as to what would give you such strong feelings on PD?
>>
>> I wouldn't suggest it for everything, but it can really do amazing
>> things and as a dataflow language it is far superior to Max/MSP due to
>> the fact that it allows for a much more logical programming style
>> where Max/MSP has many objects that behave in bizarre ways, leading to
>> people creating really messy / nonsensical patches.
>>
>>
>> ~David
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:15 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>>> i agree, I dislike pd with a passion, but such a project has all the reasons to be written in free software.
>>> why not do it in SuperCollider?
>>>
>>> On 11 Apr 2011, at 03:37, Justin Glenn Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think it is salient here that pd was written by the very same Miller S. Puckett that the MSP part of Max/MSP is named after. And it was made in a large part for this very reason of being able to preserve tools and techniques of creating electronic music for posterity. Implementing your work in a closed and proprietary platform is embedding a self destruct mechanism into your work. It isn't guaranteed to go off, but historically it pretty much always has.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't care about history or preservation of artistic work then why are you even trying to recreate things from the past?
>>>>
>>>> Michal Seta wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Samuel van ransbeeck <thinksamuel at yahoo.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Michal
>>>>>>
>>>>>> interesting point you raise there. I have thought of using PD personally
>>>>>> but always I think: what about support? I know PD has a large user-base but
>>>>>> still I think that Max is superior;
>>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>> *Superior* is a very strong word... ?let's see...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why? 1) A large user base as well
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ok, so Pd is equal in superiority,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) You buy a pretty expensive product, so you are entitled a good
>>>>>> functioning program.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you ever read the MaxMSP license agreement? ?By using the software you
>>>>> agree to use it "as is". ?No one can guarantee good functioning of a
>>>>> software (and in my experience, MaxMSP has its flaws and bugs, enough to
>>>>> look up the updates change logs).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cycling HAS to respond your emails, while PD has not a full time support
>>>>>> staff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, cycling74 will respond to emails but only for a limited time and *only* if
>>>>> you are a license owner (i.e. will they support me trying to get something
>>>>> running with a runtime version of Max? ?Will you answer my emails and help
>>>>> me run your patches in runtime?).
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, I think that is it only natural that we (artists) take other people's
>>>>> (artistic) work and we get inspired, we decompose, recompose, mashup etc. ?I
>>>>> could, for instance, download the Pd repertory project, install Pd, look at
>>>>> the patches, decompose, get inspired and come up with some composition +
>>>>> patch that is somehow derived from a piece I liked. ?If I wanted to that
>>>>> with something that was provided as MaxMSP patches, I would also need to buy
>>>>> either a new computer or a new operating system (because I run linux) and
>>>>> buy MaxMSP license. ?What if, later, I change my mind and do not want to be
>>>>> inspired anymore... ?do I get a refund?
>>>>>
>>>>> This is all assuming (perhaps wrongly) that your intention is to "port"
>>>>> electronic music *and* make it available for study, ?deconstruction and the
>>>>> like. ?Because maybe you will simply make ? runtime binaries of that stuff
>>>>> and not share the patches at all, which is fine, and in that case all my
>>>>> points are invalidated.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are thinking of open-source software, I would suggest looking to
>>>>>> Faust (Faustworks). You program your audio stuff in C++ and then you can
>>>>>> export it as an external or VST and additionally, it makes a mathematical
>>>>>> abstraction of your program.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. ?You can. ?I only mentioned Pd because it is "syntactically" similar to
>>>>> MaxMSP. ?It could be any programming language.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> In general, every language becomes obsolete one time. We have to work with
>>>>>> the current language and in 10, 20 years, there will be a new 'recreation'
>>>>>> of the music.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that's my point, actually. ?The music that was done with CSound 15
>>>>> (maybe more?) years ago, can still be parsed and rendered today. ?There are
>>>>> still people today using such obsolete languages as Lisp and Forth
>>>>> (sometimes even for music!). ?In any case, you are free to use whatever
>>>>> software you wish, I was just curious about the choice of software. ?I think
>>>>> that using an expensive software because the company's full-time staff is
>>>>> obliged to answer support emails is a rather weak reason to choose one
>>>>> software over another*. ?*Perhaps there are other reasons?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> ./MiS
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>

From prolepsis at gmail.com  Mon Apr 11 15:17:25 2011
From: prolepsis at gmail.com (Al Matthews)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:17:25 -0400
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikKra+0igvP0Vxag_U35c0E8K4HHw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTindnci-iEBXBeytaaojkieWK5xmBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<394503.66356.qm@web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTimhzTS7emidZM5q5LMb2wzUdctQyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DA25B41.1040606@gmail.com>
	<F0419130-FA10-4758-9AD5-DAA343A3EF69@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTim8jS9seDajdW-MjNunzyjEgs8X4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<829F582E-5E8E-4DD5-8274-34A89A75725A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikKra+0igvP0Vxag_U35c0E8K4HHw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimyxL+h266ifi5az9Wt+F9zTzJ2pg@mail.gmail.com>

As re: live visuals it's perhaps worth noting here that SuperCollider
appears to be making, and MAX already has made, inroads with the Field
project http://openendedgroup.com/field/
http://openendedgroup.com/field/wiki/MaxPlugin

The environment is graphics-oriented but also a useful way to create
GUIs, http://openendedgroup.com/field/wiki/EmbeddingGui and certainly
to create visualizations.

It does suck up some CPU. Recently ported to Ubuntu Linux after
starting life deep in more proprietary OSX toolchains.
http://openendedgroup.com/field/wiki/FieldNews

The SuperCollider or ScalaCollider effort could use some help and
interest I think.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/field-development/65EGxIYBmyA

Not an afternoon's undertaking but, you know, what is. -Al


On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 1:17 PM, David Powers <cyborgk at gmail.com> wrote:
> What you are saying makes sense... I actually used PD mostly for
> either visuals, or to process midi received from me playing a keyboard
> and controllers with knobs and faders, and then send MIDI or OSC
> events into some host that contains either some modular setup or a
> bunch of VST's and sampled instruments... It worked great for those
> applications.
>
> So I have to admit that I wasn't actually doing much in the way of
> proper synthesis, not was the user interface much of an issue for the
> things I was creating. But I certainly can't think of any way I could
> have created the visuals except with Max+Jitter which is quite
> expensive as has been pointed out. For doing straight DSP I do think
> PD can be a bit cumbersome.
>
> ~David
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:00 PM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>> I used to be pretty heavily into max-msp, sorta made a living with it.
>> I ditched it, because I found it cumbersome for some things, same as PD really and the closed nature also annoyed me.
>> For ease of use and combining media it's really good. People make crappy patches in PD as well and you can program in good or bad ways in any environment, I don't think PD has any basic objects Max doesn't have, a couple are slightly different. What I dislike it for is the combination of a horrible interface (in a graphical environment that just doesn't make sense) the obscurity of docs (which have come a long way) and external libraries.
>> Now I do SuperCollider and it kicks the pants off both of those for sound work, sucks for hand-built interfaces though and the learning curve is steep...
>>
>> to get back on topic, I made a piece for 15 SE/30's, running Max 3.5 on system 6 or 7. Cycling only gave us 2 (!) licenses after a friend of David Z contacted them for us, they didn't want to at first.
>> In the end we're very happy with that and with the runtime we still got up on the old machines, but clearly this sort of thing is a problem for a project of this nature.
>>
>>
>> On 11 Apr 2011, at 18:37, David Powers wrote:
>>
>>> Can I inquire as to what would give you such strong feelings on PD?
>>>
>>> I wouldn't suggest it for everything, but it can really do amazing
>>> things and as a dataflow language it is far superior to Max/MSP due to
>>> the fact that it allows for a much more logical programming style
>>> where Max/MSP has many objects that behave in bizarre ways, leading to
>>> people creating really messy / nonsensical patches.
>>>
>>>
>>> ~David
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:15 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>>>> i agree, I dislike pd with a passion, but such a project has all the reasons to be written in free software.
>>>> why not do it in SuperCollider?
>>>>
>>>> On 11 Apr 2011, at 03:37, Justin Glenn Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think it is salient here that pd was written by the very same Miller S. Puckett that the MSP part of Max/MSP is named after. And it was made in a large part for this very reason of being able to preserve tools and techniques of creating electronic music for posterity. Implementing your work in a closed and proprietary platform is embedding a self destruct mechanism into your work. It isn't guaranteed to go off, but historically it pretty much always has.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't care about history or preservation of artistic work then why are you even trying to recreate things from the past?
>>>>>
>>>>> Michal Seta wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Samuel van ransbeeck <thinksamuel at yahoo.com
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Michal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> interesting point you raise there. I have thought of using PD personally
>>>>>>> but always I think: what about support? I know PD has a large user-base but
>>>>>>> still I think that Max is superior;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> *Superior* is a very strong word... ?let's see...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why? 1) A large user base as well
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok, so Pd is equal in superiority,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) You buy a pretty expensive product, so you are entitled a good
>>>>>>> functioning program.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you ever read the MaxMSP license agreement? ?By using the software you
>>>>>> agree to use it "as is". ?No one can guarantee good functioning of a
>>>>>> software (and in my experience, MaxMSP has its flaws and bugs, enough to
>>>>>> look up the updates change logs).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cycling HAS to respond your emails, while PD has not a full time support
>>>>>>> staff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, cycling74 will respond to emails but only for a limited time and *only* if
>>>>>> you are a license owner (i.e. will they support me trying to get something
>>>>>> running with a runtime version of Max? ?Will you answer my emails and help
>>>>>> me run your patches in runtime?).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, I think that is it only natural that we (artists) take other people's
>>>>>> (artistic) work and we get inspired, we decompose, recompose, mashup etc. ?I
>>>>>> could, for instance, download the Pd repertory project, install Pd, look at
>>>>>> the patches, decompose, get inspired and come up with some composition +
>>>>>> patch that is somehow derived from a piece I liked. ?If I wanted to that
>>>>>> with something that was provided as MaxMSP patches, I would also need to buy
>>>>>> either a new computer or a new operating system (because I run linux) and
>>>>>> buy MaxMSP license. ?What if, later, I change my mind and do not want to be
>>>>>> inspired anymore... ?do I get a refund?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is all assuming (perhaps wrongly) that your intention is to "port"
>>>>>> electronic music *and* make it available for study, ?deconstruction and the
>>>>>> like. ?Because maybe you will simply make ? runtime binaries of that stuff
>>>>>> and not share the patches at all, which is fine, and in that case all my
>>>>>> points are invalidated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are thinking of open-source software, I would suggest looking to
>>>>>>> Faust (Faustworks). You program your audio stuff in C++ and then you can
>>>>>>> export it as an external or VST and additionally, it makes a mathematical
>>>>>>> abstraction of your program.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes. ?You can. ?I only mentioned Pd because it is "syntactically" similar to
>>>>>> MaxMSP. ?It could be any programming language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In general, every language becomes obsolete one time. We have to work with
>>>>>>> the current language and in 10, 20 years, there will be a new 'recreation'
>>>>>>> of the music.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, that's my point, actually. ?The music that was done with CSound 15
>>>>>> (maybe more?) years ago, can still be parsed and rendered today. ?There are
>>>>>> still people today using such obsolete languages as Lisp and Forth
>>>>>> (sometimes even for music!). ?In any case, you are free to use whatever
>>>>>> software you wish, I was just curious about the choice of software. ?I think
>>>>>> that using an expensive software because the company's full-time staff is
>>>>>> obliged to answer support emails is a rather weak reason to choose one
>>>>>> software over another*. ?*Perhaps there are other reasons?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> ./MiS
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> *
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>



-- 
Al Matthews

From list at isjtar.org  Mon Apr 11 15:24:14 2011
From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar)
Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 21:24:14 +0200
Subject: [microsound] recreating electronic music
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimyxL+h266ifi5az9Wt+F9zTzJ2pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <252820.32780.qm@web34408.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTindnci-iEBXBeytaaojkieWK5xmBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<394503.66356.qm@web34405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<BANLkTimhzTS7emidZM5q5LMb2wzUdctQyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DA25B41.1040606@gmail.com>
	<F0419130-FA10-4758-9AD5-DAA343A3EF69@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTim8jS9seDajdW-MjNunzyjEgs8X4Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<829F582E-5E8E-4DD5-8274-34A89A75725A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikKra+0igvP0Vxag_U35c0E8K4HHw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimyxL+h266ifi5az9Wt+F9zTzJ2pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AE600AC7-47D7-43AB-BC9E-7E657863028C@isjtar.org>

yes i've seen that, looks pretty cool.
hmmm clicks download : )

On 11 Apr 2011, at 21:17, Al Matthews wrote:

> As re: live visuals it's perhaps worth noting here that SuperCollider
> appears to be making, and MAX already has made, inroads with the Field
> project http://openendedgroup.com/field/
> http://openendedgroup.com/field/wiki/MaxPlugin
> 
> The environment is graphics-oriented but also a useful way to create
> GUIs, http://openendedgroup.com/field/wiki/EmbeddingGui and certainly
> to create visualizations.
> 
> It does suck up some CPU. Recently ported to Ubuntu Linux after
> starting life deep in more proprietary OSX toolchains.
> http://openendedgroup.com/field/wiki/FieldNews
> 
> The SuperCollider or ScalaCollider effort could use some help and
> interest I think.
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/field-development/65EGxIYBmyA
> 
> Not an afternoon's undertaking but, you know, what is. -Al
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 1:17 PM, David Powers <cyborgk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What you are saying makes sense... I actually used PD mostly for
>> either visuals, or to process midi received from me playing a keyboard
>> and controllers with knobs and faders, and then send MIDI or OSC
>> events into some host that contains either some modular setup or a
>> bunch of VST's and sampled instruments... It worked great for those
>> applications.
>> 
>> So I have to admit that I wasn't actually doing much in the way of
>> proper synthesis, not was the user interface much of an issue for the
>> things I was creating. But I certainly can't think of any way I could
>> have created the visuals except with Max+Jitter which is quite
>> expensive as has been pointed out. For doing straight DSP I do think
>> PD can be a bit cumbersome.
>> 
>> ~David
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 12:00 PM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>>> I used to be pretty heavily into max-msp, sorta made a living with it.
>>> I ditched it, because I found it cumbersome for some things, same as PD really and the closed nature also annoyed me.
>>> For ease of use and combining media it's really good. People make crappy patches in PD as well and you can program in good or bad ways in any environment, I don't think PD has any basic objects Max doesn't have, a couple are slightly different. What I dislike it for is the combination of a horrible interface (in a graphical environment that just doesn't make sense) the obscurity of docs (which have come a long way) and external libraries.
>>> Now I do SuperCollider and it kicks the pants off both of those for sound work, sucks for hand-built interfaces though and the learning curve is steep...
>>> 
>>> to get back on topic, I made a piece for 15 SE/30's, running Max 3.5 on system 6 or 7. Cycling only gave us 2 (!) licenses after a friend of David Z contacted them for us, they didn't want to at first.
>>> In the end we're very happy with that and with the runtime we still got up on the old machines, but clearly this sort of thing is a problem for a project of this nature.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11 Apr 2011, at 18:37, David Powers wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Can I inquire as to what would give you such strong feelings on PD?
>>>> 
>>>> I wouldn't suggest it for everything, but it can really do amazing
>>>> things and as a dataflow language it is far superior to Max/MSP due to
>>>> the fact that it allows for a much more logical programming style
>>>> where Max/MSP has many objects that behave in bizarre ways, leading to
>>>> people creating really messy / nonsensical patches.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ~David
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 8:15 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>>>>> i agree, I dislike pd with a passion, but such a project has all the reasons to be written in free software.
>>>>> why not do it in SuperCollider?
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 11 Apr 2011, at 03:37, Justin Glenn Smith wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think it is salient here that pd was written by the very same Miller S. Puckett that the MSP part of Max/MSP is named after. And it was made in a large part for this very reason of being able to preserve tools and techniques of creating electronic music for posterity. Implementing your work in a closed and proprietary platform is embedding a self destruct mechanism into your work. It isn't guaranteed to go off, but historically it pretty much always has.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If you don't care about history or preservation of artistic work then why are you even trying to recreate things from the past?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Michal Seta wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Samuel van ransbeeck <thinksamuel at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hello Michal
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> interesting point you raise there. I have thought of using PD personally
>>>>>>>> but always I think: what about support? I know PD has a large user-base but
>>>>>>>> still I think that Max is superior;
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> *Superior* is a very strong word...  let's see...
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Why? 1) A large user base as well
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ok, so Pd is equal in superiority,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 2) You buy a pretty expensive product, so you are entitled a good
>>>>>>>> functioning program.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Have you ever read the MaxMSP license agreement?  By using the software you
>>>>>>> agree to use it "as is".  No one can guarantee good functioning of a
>>>>>>> software (and in my experience, MaxMSP has its flaws and bugs, enough to
>>>>>>> look up the updates change logs).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cycling HAS to respond your emails, while PD has not a full time support
>>>>>>>> staff.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes, cycling74 will respond to emails but only for a limited time and *only* if
>>>>>>> you are a license owner (i.e. will they support me trying to get something
>>>>>>> running with a runtime version of Max?  Will you answer my emails and help
>>>>>>> me run your patches in runtime?).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now, I think that is it only natural that we (artists) take other people's
>>>>>>> (artistic) work and we get inspired, we decompose, recompose, mashup etc.  I
>>>>>>> could, for instance, download the Pd repertory project, install Pd, look at
>>>>>>> the patches, decompose, get inspired and come up with some composition +
>>>>>>> patch that is somehow derived from a piece I liked.  If I wanted to that
>>>>>>> with something that was provided as MaxMSP patches, I would also need to buy
>>>>>>> either a new computer or a new operating system (because I run linux) and
>>>>>>> buy MaxMSP license.  What if, later, I change my mind and do not want to be
>>>>>>> inspired anymore...  do I get a refund?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is all assuming (perhaps wrongly) that your intention is to "port"
>>>>>>> electronic music *and* make it available for study,  deconstruction and the
>>>>>>> like.  Because maybe you will simply make   runtime binaries of that stuff
>>>>>>> and not share the patches at all, which is fine, and in that case all my
>>>>>>> points are invalidated.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you are thinking of open-source software, I would suggest looking to
>>>>>>>> Faust (Faustworks). You program your audio stuff in C++ and then you can
>>>>>>>> export it as an external or VST and additionally, it makes a mathematical
>>>>>>>> abstraction of your program.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes.  You can.  I only mentioned Pd because it is "syntactically" similar to
>>>>>>> MaxMSP.  It could be any programming language.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In general, every language becomes obsolete one time. We have to work with
>>>>>>>> the current language and in 10, 20 years, there will be a new 'recreation'
>>>>>>>> of the music.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes, that's my point, actually.  The music that was done with CSound 15
>>>>>>> (maybe more?) years ago, can still be parsed and rendered today.  There are
>>>>>>> still people today using such obsolete languages as Lisp and Forth
>>>>>>> (sometimes even for music!).  In any case, you are free to use whatever
>>>>>>> software you wish, I was just curious about the choice of software.  I think
>>>>>>> that using an expensive software because the company's full-time staff is
>>>>>>> obliged to answer support emails is a rather weak reason to choose one
>>>>>>> software over another*.  *Perhaps there are other reasons?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> ./MiS
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Al Matthews
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From madprofes at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 09:31:57 2011
From: madprofes at gmail.com (Pmurph)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 08:31:57 -0500
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
Message-ID: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>


Sorry if this has already been discussed ad nauseum.  Can you all suggest sound creation apps for iPhone?  Someone mentioned mod-axis a few weeks ago, which I liked and made me curious about what else is out there.  Any apps that might appeal to supercollider or max/map users?

Thx,

Pdm

From mis at artengine.ca  Tue Apr 12 09:42:25 2011
From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 09:42:25 -0400
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>

rjdj.me
I think this is all you need.  But if SuperCollider appeals to you, search
the net because I believe I read somewhere that SuperCollider can run on
iPhone (or maybe (rather?) Android, cannot recall).

also might be of interest:
http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/nc81/iphone.html#TOPLAPapp

<http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/nc81/iphone.html#TOPLAPapp>./MiS

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Pmurph <madprofes at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Sorry if this has already been discussed ad nauseum.  Can you all suggest
> sound creation apps for iPhone?  Someone mentioned mod-axis a few weeks ago,
> which I liked and made me curious about what else is out there.  Any apps
> that might appeal to supercollider or max/map users?
>
> Thx,
>
> Pdm
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
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From kcpaul at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 09:50:43 2011
From: kcpaul at gmail.com (Kevin Paul)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:50:43 -0600
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <955EE55F-3D15-464F-B5D0-58041BBA3252@gmail.com>

I love TouchOSC, but it's a controller app rather than a sound creation app. It gives you multi-touch controllers in fully customizable layouts. 

On 2011-04-12, at 7:31 AM, Pmurph <madprofes at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Sorry if this has already been discussed ad nauseum.  Can you all suggest sound creation apps for iPhone?  Someone mentioned mod-axis a few weeks ago, which I liked and made me curious about what else is out there.  Any apps that might appeal to supercollider or max/map users?
> 
> Thx,
> 
> Pdm
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

From jonahsprout at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 14:26:02 2011
From: jonahsprout at gmail.com (Jonah Sprout)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:26:02 -0400
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikNzwVwhCUMrUehd=+ac0hRZFcvBg@mail.gmail.com>

Jasuto a modular synth thing and Sunvox a modular tracker thing. I
also like Droneo for macrosounds :) that and various free shruti boxes
can be fun.
On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Pmurph <madprofes at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry if this has already been discussed ad nauseum. ?Can you all suggest sound creation apps for iPhone? ?Someone mentioned mod-axis a few weeks ago, which I liked and made me curious about what else is out there. ?Any apps that might appeal to supercollider or max/map users?
>
> Thx,
>
> Pdm
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>

From joostvdm at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 14:49:54 2011
From: joostvdm at gmail.com (Joost van der Molen)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 20:49:54 +0200
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikNzwVwhCUMrUehd=+ac0hRZFcvBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikNzwVwhCUMrUehd=+ac0hRZFcvBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikAUFjqRtEj-KbzWi6kowxVzOy8Pg@mail.gmail.com>

For a fun granular app, check:

Curtis Lite [free]
http://itunes.apple.com/nl/app/curtis-lite-granular-synthesizer/id327856303?mt=8

Curtis Heavy [4 euro]
http://itunes.apple.com/nl/app/curtis-heavy-granular-synthesizer/id317498757?mt=8

On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Jonah Sprout <jonahsprout at gmail.com> wrote:
> Jasuto a modular synth thing and Sunvox a modular tracker thing. I
> also like Droneo for macrosounds :) that and various free shruti boxes
> can be fun.
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Pmurph <madprofes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Sorry if this has already been discussed ad nauseum. ?Can you all suggest sound creation apps for iPhone? ?Someone mentioned mod-axis a few weeks ago, which I liked and made me curious about what else is out there. ?Any apps that might appeal to supercollider or max/map users?
>>
>> Thx,
>>
>> Pdm
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>



-- 
Groeten,

Joost

From kanimmo at gmail.com  Tue Apr 12 15:27:46 2011
From: kanimmo at gmail.com (Kurt Nimmo)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:27:46 -0500
Subject: [microsound] microsound Digest, Vol 28, Issue 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10708.1302632787.5607.microsound@or8.net>
References: <mailman.10708.1302632787.5607.microsound@or8.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=zuVedGArGbVF10oExtpgRxz6M5Q@mail.gmail.com>

iPhone sound apps. Here's what I use...

Runxt Life: This one creates generative MIDI based on ?Conway?s Game of
Life? by John Horton Conway. It sends midi notes to Ableton Live (or any
DAW) with Runxt Life, an OSC to MIDI app, over wifi.

http://www.runxt.be/#/life/

Jasuto, a modular synth. It has a large user-base.

http://www.jasuto.com/home/

Moog Filtration, an excellent effects and sound app. It is sort of expensive
for an iPhone app, but well worth every penny in my estimation. It will
import audio samples via FTP.

http://filtatron.moogmusic.com/

I have a bunch of others as well, but the above are my favorites. I want to
get into Reactable, based on the tabletop version, but have yet to find the
time to learn it.

http://www.reactable.com/

MorphWiz, modAxis, bleepSynth, Droneo, GyroSythn are also interesting, but
not as useful for me as the others. I bought Seine (it was on sale) too, but
it is almost worthless on the iPhone. It will be much more useful on an iPad
because it has a grid keyboard.

Kurt
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From ernst at pulsewidth.ca  Wed Apr 13 01:59:18 2011
From: ernst at pulsewidth.ca (Ernie Dulanowsky)
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 23:59:18 -0600
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikAUFjqRtEj-KbzWi6kowxVzOy8Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikNzwVwhCUMrUehd=+ac0hRZFcvBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikAUFjqRtEj-KbzWi6kowxVzOy8Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikDub_=86StzNhFPjYbcYJ-Vbvwgg@mail.gmail.com>

These may or may not appeal to a SuperCollider or Max/MSP user but are still
of interest:

SynthPond

Grid

NNN Mono

Sprak (glitchy noise synth)

NoiseMachine

Moog Filtatron

cheers,
ernie


++++++++++++++++
Ernie Dulanowsky
www.pulsewidth.ca
++++++++++++++++


On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Joost van der Molen <joostvdm at gmail.com>wrote:

> For a fun granular app, check:
>
> Curtis Lite [free]
>
> http://itunes.apple.com/nl/app/curtis-lite-granular-synthesizer/id327856303?mt=8
>
> Curtis Heavy [4 euro]
>
> http://itunes.apple.com/nl/app/curtis-heavy-granular-synthesizer/id317498757?mt=8
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:26 PM, Jonah Sprout <jonahsprout at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Jasuto a modular synth thing and Sunvox a modular tracker thing. I
> > also like Droneo for macrosounds :) that and various free shruti boxes
> > can be fun.
> > On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Pmurph <madprofes at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sorry if this has already been discussed ad nauseum.  Can you all
> suggest sound creation apps for iPhone?  Someone mentioned mod-axis a few
> weeks ago, which I liked and made me curious about what else is out there.
>  Any apps that might appeal to supercollider or max/map users?
> >>
> >> Thx,
> >>
> >> Pdm
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> microsound mailing list
> >> microsound at microsound.org
> >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > microsound mailing list
> > microsound at microsound.org
> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Groeten,
>
> Joost
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
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From list at isjtar.org  Wed Apr 13 05:27:11 2011
From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 11:27:11 +0200
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>

> I think this is all you need.  But if SuperCollider appeals to you, search the net because I believe I read somewhere that SuperCollider can run on iPhone (or maybe (rather?) Android, cannot recall).

it runs on both, though best on iphone - only the server though if i'm not mistaken.

that said, was at a festival for contemporary music and in the program was one person who put as instruments: violin, iPhone.
I felt dirty after reading that.

On 12 Apr 2011, at 15:42, Michal Seta wrote:

> rjdj.me
> I think this is all you need.  But if SuperCollider appeals to you, search the net because I believe I read somewhere that SuperCollider can run on iPhone (or maybe (rather?) Android, cannot recall).
> 
> also might be of interest: http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/nc81/iphone.html#TOPLAPapp
> 
> ./MiS
> 
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Pmurph <madprofes at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Sorry if this has already been discussed ad nauseum.  Can you all suggest sound creation apps for iPhone?  Someone mentioned mod-axis a few weeks ago, which I liked and made me curious about what else is out there.  Any apps that might appeal to supercollider or max/map users?
> 
> Thx,
> 
> Pdm
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

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From mis at artengine.ca  Wed Apr 13 08:49:51 2011
From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 08:49:51 -0400
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:27 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>
> that said, was at a festival for contemporary music and in the program was
> one person who put as instruments: violin, iPhone.
> I felt dirty after reading that.
>
> that's interesting!  How dirty did you feel.  And why?

./MiS
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From list at isjtar.org  Wed Apr 13 10:31:15 2011
From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:31:15 +0200
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C053090E-1ED2-4A07-B939-D1220322EEC4@isjtar.org>

I'm a Mac user and an Apple customer, but supposedly critical minded people who go flaunting Apple products like that, i dunno, it's just wrong...
if it would be any other megacorporation, people would frown upon it, but Apple gets a free pass in some circles and even gets used to obtain an image of "state of the art" or "cutting edge".



On 13 Apr 2011, at 14:49, Michal Seta wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:27 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
> that said, was at a festival for contemporary music and in the program was one person who put as instruments: violin, iPhone.
> I felt dirty after reading that.
> 
> that's interesting!  How dirty did you feel.  And why?
> 
> ./MiS 

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From list at isjtar.org  Wed Apr 13 10:38:00 2011
From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 16:38:00 +0200
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <C053090E-1ED2-4A07-B939-D1220322EEC4@isjtar.org>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<C053090E-1ED2-4A07-B939-D1220322EEC4@isjtar.org>
Message-ID: <ADDDCA74-A3B8-4B50-94AE-364866F397D2@isjtar.org>

i mean if he'd say smart phone it would still irritate me, but much less dirty : )

On 13 Apr 2011, at 16:31, isjtar wrote:

> I'm a Mac user and an Apple customer, but supposedly critical minded people who go flaunting Apple products like that, i dunno, it's just wrong...
> if it would be any other megacorporation, people would frown upon it, but Apple gets a free pass in some circles and even gets used to obtain an image of "state of the art" or "cutting edge".
> 
> 
> 
> On 13 Apr 2011, at 14:49, Michal Seta wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:27 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>> that said, was at a festival for contemporary music and in the program was one person who put as instruments: violin, iPhone.
>> I felt dirty after reading that.
>> 
>> that's interesting!  How dirty did you feel.  And why?
>> 
>> ./MiS 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

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From mis at artengine.ca  Wed Apr 13 10:56:28 2011
From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 10:56:28 -0400
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>

That's an interesting observation.  Would you rather be happy with "guitar,
mobile"?  I guess, that would be a little ambiguous (Smoke on the Water by
Deep Purple references "making music on a mobile" which probably isn't a
mobile phone).  Or would you rather be happy reading "guitar, iAmp" (or
whatever the application is being used, perhaps more appropriate because it
is probably the application that will somehow influence the sound qualities
and not actual hardware.  Does iPhone sound different from HTC?).  He could
have probably said "guitar, electronics" but that does quite large and
specifying that uses an iPhone is actually a marketing move.  Perhaps it
makes him hype?  But then, perhaps Apple has actually given him an iPhone to
make music with and he has a contractual obligation to mention the
trademarked icon.  Now, how about this:
http://www.ataut.net/site/Adam-Atau-4-Hands-iPhone.  Does that make you seek
a decontamination facility?

I see your points, though.  I think I will use "a handheld device capable of
producing sound".  Sounds much more enigmatic.

./MiS

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:52 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:

> I'm a Mac user and an Apple customer, but supposedly critical minded people
> who go flaunting Apple products like that, i dunno, it's just wrong...
> if it would be any other megacorporation, people would frown upon it, but
> Apple gets a free pass in some circles and even gets used to obtain an image
> of "state of the art" or "cutting edge".
>
>
>
> On 13 Apr 2011, at 14:49, Michal Seta wrote:
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:27 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>>
>> that said, was at a festival for contemporary music and in the program was
>> one person who put as instruments: violin, iPhone.
>> I felt dirty after reading that.
>>
>> that's interesting!  How dirty did you feel.  And why?
>
> ./MiS
>
>
>
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From ted.pallas at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 11:28:07 2011
From: ted.pallas at gmail.com (Ted Pallas)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 11:28:07 -0400
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2BB362D0-2F81-4D78-A5F1-BA3997976A73@gmail.com>

I don't know, you guys - is it wrong for people to form an emotional relationship with a pile of silicon? Because that's how I feel about my iPhone - she's my girl Friday. 

 I think saying iPhone is totally ok - it not only is in fact what he's holding, but for the audience it serves as a reminder that it's ok for a disposable device to be in the same art-space as, say, a Strad. 

Ted Pallas
Live Media Design
Sandwich Construction Consultant
cell - 516 286 9661

Pardon the typos, sent from my Casio SK-1

On Apr 13, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Michal Seta <mis at artengine.ca> wrote:

> That's an interesting observation.  Would you rather be happy with "guitar, mobile"?  I guess, that would be a little ambiguous (Smoke on the Water by Deep Purple references "making music on a mobile" which probably isn't a mobile phone).  Or would you rather be happy reading "guitar, iAmp" (or whatever the application is being used, perhaps more appropriate because it is probably the application that will somehow influence the sound qualities and not actual hardware.  Does iPhone sound different from HTC?).  He could have probably said "guitar, electronics" but that does quite large and specifying that uses an iPhone is actually a marketing move.  Perhaps it makes him hype?  But then, perhaps Apple has actually given him an iPhone to make music with and he has a contractual obligation to mention the trademarked icon.  Now, how about this: http://www.ataut.net/site/Adam-Atau-4-Hands-iPhone.  Does that make you seek a decontamination facility?
> 
> I see your points, though.  I think I will use "a handheld device capable of producing sound".  Sounds much more enigmatic.
> 
> ./MiS
> 
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:52 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
> I'm a Mac user and an Apple customer, but supposedly critical minded people who go flaunting Apple products like that, i dunno, it's just wrong...
> if it would be any other megacorporation, people would frown upon it, but Apple gets a free pass in some circles and even gets used to obtain an image of "state of the art" or "cutting edge".
> 
> 
> 
> On 13 Apr 2011, at 14:49, Michal Seta wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:27 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>> that said, was at a festival for contemporary music and in the program was one person who put as instruments: violin, iPhone.
>> I felt dirty after reading that.
>> 
>> that's interesting!  How dirty did you feel.  And why?
>> 
>> ./MiS 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
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From l.vanderwee at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 12:38:03 2011
From: l.vanderwee at gmail.com (Laurens van der Wee)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 18:38:03 +0200
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8518B5D2-9C5C-4F58-9EA8-A5C86EC81B62@gmail.com>

> Now, how about this: http://www.ataut.net/site/Adam-Atau-4-Hands-iPhone. 

Thanks for sharing, but I wonder if in this case the iPhone (or mobile or smartphone or ...) enables the performers to actually be expressive or gestural or whatever word you wanna use for it. Watching the video, I couldn't detach from the feeling that I was still looking at a bunch of geeks (nothing wrong with that) struggling with their technology (also fine, but it seems they're pretending a bit more), rather than people expressing themselves in a musical performance.

I know this statement is a bit off-subject, however, I can imagine this comes close to isjtar's doubts, but that's something I do not know for sure of course.

laurens.



> 
> ./MiS
> 
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:52 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
> I'm a Mac user and an Apple customer, but supposedly critical minded people who go flaunting Apple products like that, i dunno, it's just wrong...
> if it would be any other megacorporation, people would frown upon it, but Apple gets a free pass in some circles and even gets used to obtain an image of "state of the art" or "cutting edge".
> 
> 
> 
> On 13 Apr 2011, at 14:49, Michal Seta wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:27 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>> that said, was at a festival for contemporary music and in the program was one person who put as instruments: violin, iPhone.
>> I felt dirty after reading that.
>> 
>> that's interesting!  How dirty did you feel.  And why?
>> 
>> ./MiS 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


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From news at ostrowski.info  Wed Apr 13 12:52:22 2011
From: news at ostrowski.info (mattyo)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 12:52:22 -0400
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <2BB362D0-2F81-4D78-A5F1-BA3997976A73@gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2BB362D0-2F81-4D78-A5F1-BA3997976A73@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E08A0D3-5180-48D9-A3CC-A8C81DC81EC3@ostrowski.info>

Given that it's not customary for people to list the maker of the guitar, amp, cables, saxophone, or whatever else they use, it certainly looks like marketing.  But since consumption choices have become the new way of locating oneself socially, and mucis is a social medium, I'm not surprised to see it.

\M


On Apr 13, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Ted Pallas wrote:

> I don't know, you guys - is it wrong for people to form an emotional relationship with a pile of silicon? Because that's how I feel about my iPhone - she's my girl Friday. 
> 
>  I think saying iPhone is totally ok - it not only is in fact what he's holding, but for the audience it serves as a reminder that it's ok for a disposable device to be in the same art-space as, say, a Strad. 
> 
> Ted Pallas
> Live Media Design
> Sandwich Construction Consultant
> cell - 516 286 9661
> 
> Pardon the typos, sent from my Casio SK-1
> 
> On Apr 13, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Michal Seta <mis at artengine.ca> wrote:
> 
>> That's an interesting observation.  Would you rather be happy with "guitar, mobile"?  I guess, that would be a little ambiguous (Smoke on the Water by Deep Purple references "making music on a mobile" which probably isn't a mobile phone).  Or would you rather be happy reading "guitar, iAmp" (or whatever the application is being used, perhaps more appropriate because it is probably the application that will somehow influence the sound qualities and not actual hardware.  Does iPhone sound different from HTC?).  He could have probably said "guitar, electronics" but that does quite large and specifying that uses an iPhone is actually a marketing move.  Perhaps it makes him hype?  But then, perhaps Apple has actually given him an iPhone to make music with and he has a contractual obligation to mention the trademarked icon.  Now, how about this: http://www.ataut.net/site/Adam-Atau-4-Hands-iPhone.  Does that make you seek a decontamination facility?
>> 
>> I see your points, though.  I think I will use "a handheld device capable of producing sound".  Sounds much more enigmatic.
>> 
>> ./MiS
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:52 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>> I'm a Mac user and an Apple customer, but supposedly critical minded people who go flaunting Apple products like that, i dunno, it's just wrong...
>> if it would be any other megacorporation, people would frown upon it, but Apple gets a free pass in some circles and even gets used to obtain an image of "state of the art" or "cutting edge".
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 13 Apr 2011, at 14:49, Michal Seta wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:27 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>>> that said, was at a festival for contemporary music and in the program was one person who put as instruments: violin, iPhone.
>>> I felt dirty after reading that.
>>> 
>>> that's interesting!  How dirty did you feel.  And why?
>>> 
>>> ./MiS 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From ted.pallas at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 13:11:34 2011
From: ted.pallas at gmail.com (Ted Pallas)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 13:11:34 -0400
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <4E08A0D3-5180-48D9-A3CC-A8C81DC81EC3@ostrowski.info>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<2BB362D0-2F81-4D78-A5F1-BA3997976A73@gmail.com>
	<4E08A0D3-5180-48D9-A3CC-A8C81DC81EC3@ostrowski.info>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin6btVG5CexCm04y1hULrC-eikA6g@mail.gmail.com>

but would someone have listed themselves as playing "electric guitar" in
1952?  because that's where we are in dog-years with the iphone/smartphone
phenomena...


Ted Pallas
Live Media Designer
Sandwich Construction Consultant
ted dot pallas -at- gmail dot com
516.286.9661



On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 12:52 PM, mattyo <news at ostrowski.info> wrote:

> Given that it's not customary for people to list the maker of the guitar,
> amp, cables, saxophone, or whatever else they use, it certainly looks like
> marketing.  But since consumption choices have become the new way of
> locating oneself socially, and mucis is a social medium, I'm not surprised
> to see it.
>
> \M
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Ted Pallas wrote:
>
> > I don't know, you guys - is it wrong for people to form an emotional
> relationship with a pile of silicon? Because that's how I feel about my
> iPhone - she's my girl Friday.
> >
> >  I think saying iPhone is totally ok - it not only is in fact what he's
> holding, but for the audience it serves as a reminder that it's ok for a
> disposable device to be in the same art-space as, say, a Strad.
> >
> > Ted Pallas
> > Live Media Design
> > Sandwich Construction Consultant
> > cell - 516 286 9661
> >
> > Pardon the typos, sent from my Casio SK-1
> >
> > On Apr 13, 2011, at 10:56 AM, Michal Seta <mis at artengine.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> That's an interesting observation.  Would you rather be happy with
> "guitar, mobile"?  I guess, that would be a little ambiguous (Smoke on the
> Water by Deep Purple references "making music on a mobile" which probably
> isn't a mobile phone).  Or would you rather be happy reading "guitar, iAmp"
> (or whatever the application is being used, perhaps more appropriate because
> it is probably the application that will somehow influence the sound
> qualities and not actual hardware.  Does iPhone sound different from HTC?).
>  He could have probably said "guitar, electronics" but that does quite large
> and specifying that uses an iPhone is actually a marketing move.  Perhaps it
> makes him hype?  But then, perhaps Apple has actually given him an iPhone to
> make music with and he has a contractual obligation to mention the
> trademarked icon.  Now, how about this:
> http://www.ataut.net/site/Adam-Atau-4-Hands-iPhone.  Does that make you
> seek a decontamination facility?
> >>
> >> I see your points, though.  I think I will use "a handheld device
> capable of producing sound".  Sounds much more enigmatic.
> >>
> >> ./MiS
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:52 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
> >> I'm a Mac user and an Apple customer, but supposedly critical minded
> people who go flaunting Apple products like that, i dunno, it's just
> wrong...
> >> if it would be any other megacorporation, people would frown upon it,
> but Apple gets a free pass in some circles and even gets used to obtain an
> image of "state of the art" or "cutting edge".
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 13 Apr 2011, at 14:49, Michal Seta wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:27 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
> >>> that said, was at a festival for contemporary music and in the program
> was one person who put as instruments: violin, iPhone.
> >>> I felt dirty after reading that.
> >>>
> >>> that's interesting!  How dirty did you feel.  And why?
> >>>
> >>> ./MiS
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> microsound mailing list
> >> microsound at microsound.org
> >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> > _______________________________________________
> > microsound mailing list
> > microsound at microsound.org
> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
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From list at isjtar.org  Wed Apr 13 13:55:59 2011
From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 19:55:59 +0200
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <8518B5D2-9C5C-4F58-9EA8-A5C86EC81B62@gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8518B5D2-9C5C-4F58-9EA8-A5C86EC81B62@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C6E7C8EB-0E64-4FA0-96D3-FC1D7EC2560E@isjtar.org>

not really, i'm fairly often in the geekery department myself, doesn't bother me, it's not about virtuoisity here.
it's more about marketing and how you position yourself.
this act was seemingly trying to say "I don't only play violin, I'll also play on my shiny iPhone. Look at how unconventional and innovative I am. Furthermore I'm stylish and design-sensitive"
ok I'm exaggerating, but that's what it does to me. 
you know now in restaurants here they start to state the brand of oven your food is cooked in.
I don't give a rat's ass, just make it tasty!

On 13 Apr 2011, at 18:38, Laurens van der Wee wrote:

>> Now, how about this: http://www.ataut.net/site/Adam-Atau-4-Hands-iPhone. 
> 
> Thanks for sharing, but I wonder if in this case the iPhone (or mobile or smartphone or ...) enables the performers to actually be expressive or gestural or whatever word you wanna use for it. Watching the video, I couldn't detach from the feeling that I was still looking at a bunch of geeks (nothing wrong with that) struggling with their technology (also fine, but it seems they're pretending a bit more), rather than people expressing themselves in a musical performance.
> 
> I know this statement is a bit off-subject, however, I can imagine this comes close to isjtar's doubts, but that's something I do not know for sure of course.
> 
> laurens.
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> ./MiS
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:52 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>> I'm a Mac user and an Apple customer, but supposedly critical minded people who go flaunting Apple products like that, i dunno, it's just wrong...
>> if it would be any other megacorporation, people would frown upon it, but Apple gets a free pass in some circles and even gets used to obtain an image of "state of the art" or "cutting edge".
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 13 Apr 2011, at 14:49, Michal Seta wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:27 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>>> that said, was at a festival for contemporary music and in the program was one person who put as instruments: violin, iPhone.
>>> I felt dirty after reading that.
>>> 
>>> that's interesting!  How dirty did you feel.  And why?
>>> 
>>> ./MiS 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

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From l.vanderwee at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 14:34:07 2011
From: l.vanderwee at gmail.com (Laurens van der Wee)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:34:07 +0200
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <C6E7C8EB-0E64-4FA0-96D3-FC1D7EC2560E@isjtar.org>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8518B5D2-9C5C-4F58-9EA8-A5C86EC81B62@gmail.com>
	<C6E7C8EB-0E64-4FA0-96D3-FC1D7EC2560E@isjtar.org>
Message-ID: <E1679519-986D-4F5B-9D5A-88B7DC685C8A@gmail.com>


> not really, i'm fairly often in the geekery department myself, doesn't bother me, it's not about virtuoisity here.

that's not what i meant actually. it's more about added value. if i see a performance i somehow want to see that the performers thought about things. in this case it looks more like they're doing the same thing, but with a different interface, without taking advantage of the new device. or they do not succeed in making a point, at least not for me.

> it's more about marketing and how you position yourself.

got that now. and i agree.

> this act was seemingly trying to say "I don't only play violin, I'll also play on my shiny iPhone. Look at how unconventional and innovative I am. Furthermore I'm stylish and design-sensitive"
> ok I'm exaggerating, but that's what it does to me. 
> you know now in restaurants here they start to state the brand of oven your food is cooked in.
> I don't give a rat's ass, just make it tasty!

that must be a joke. right?

laurens.


> 
> On 13 Apr 2011, at 18:38, Laurens van der Wee wrote:
> 
>>> Now, how about this: http://www.ataut.net/site/Adam-Atau-4-Hands-iPhone. 
>> 
>> Thanks for sharing, but I wonder if in this case the iPhone (or mobile or smartphone or ...) enables the performers to actually be expressive or gestural or whatever word you wanna use for it. Watching the video, I couldn't detach from the feeling that I was still looking at a bunch of geeks (nothing wrong with that) struggling with their technology (also fine, but it seems they're pretending a bit more), rather than people expressing themselves in a musical performance.
>> 
>> I know this statement is a bit off-subject, however, I can imagine this comes close to isjtar's doubts, but that's something I do not know for sure of course.
>> 
>> laurens.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> ./MiS
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:52 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>>> I'm a Mac user and an Apple customer, but supposedly critical minded people who go flaunting Apple products like that, i dunno, it's just wrong...
>>> if it would be any other megacorporation, people would frown upon it, but Apple gets a free pass in some circles and even gets used to obtain an image of "state of the art" or "cutting edge".
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 13 Apr 2011, at 14:49, Michal Seta wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:27 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>>>> that said, was at a festival for contemporary music and in the program was one person who put as instruments: violin, iPhone.
>>>> I felt dirty after reading that.
>>>> 
>>>> that's interesting!  How dirty did you feel.  And why?
>>>> 
>>>> ./MiS 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

laurens.

____

t:   (+31) 6 120 59 134
e:  l.vanderwee at gmail.com
w: www.laurensvanderwee.nl
s:  laurensvanderwee

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From whiprwill at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 13 16:38:10 2011
From: whiprwill at yahoo.com (will s.)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 13:38:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10755.1302719664.5607.microsound@or8.net>
References: <mailman.10755.1302719664.5607.microsound@or8.net>
Message-ID: <941915.75765.qm@web31005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

wasnt it not too long ago that the viennese powerbookworms were all that & a few 
microchips short?

on another note, visited sweat records in little haiti, miami this weekend, and 
the woman taking money had tatoos on both arms, near the elbow:
'micro'  &  'sound'

i asked her if she was familiar with microsound.org, she did not appear to be, 
but she knew who kim cascone was and described microsound as a 'genre'... gave 
me two thumbs up for getting (her version of) the reference...

~will soderberg
white-rose.net


From cyborgk at gmail.com  Wed Apr 13 16:58:49 2011
From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 15:58:49 -0500
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <E1679519-986D-4F5B-9D5A-88B7DC685C8A@gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8518B5D2-9C5C-4F58-9EA8-A5C86EC81B62@gmail.com>
	<C6E7C8EB-0E64-4FA0-96D3-FC1D7EC2560E@isjtar.org>
	<E1679519-986D-4F5B-9D5A-88B7DC685C8A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=MWNOPcK0LEz+pYfP5xT=6W6zzYg@mail.gmail.com>

I think it is clear that there are now three "Big Brother" companies
in the technology world.

It amazes me that one of these three companies has managed to create a
set of consumers who seem to shut off their brains when it comes to
the commodities and practices produced by said company, even when
those consumers are supposedly politically aware artists. I use
technology by all three companies, in the end I'm going to use
whatever gets the job done.

But I have BIG problems with:

1. Developing "open" tools for a platform that is not only closed, but
PROHIBITIVELY expensive for many working people (we see this with many
art/music+technology tools developed at universities)
2. Cheerfully providing free marketing for said platform without doing
any critique
3. Hypocritically denouncing one of the other companies for being
"closed" and "evil" without applying the same critique to the new kid
on the block, which in my opinion is now both quite powerful, and
engaged in practices that are as or perhaps even more disturbing than
what the traditional evil giant.

Ironically, while on principle I dislike all monopolies, the
traditional Big Brother company has opened up quite a lot and softened
some of its practices.

~David

From d4l3d at inbox.com  Thu Apr 14 00:02:51 2011
From: d4l3d at inbox.com (d4l3d)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 20:02:51 -0800
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <941915.75765.qm@web31005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <mailman.10755.1302719664.5607.microsound@or8.net>
Message-ID: <82CE72E8B16.00000058d4l3d@inbox.com>

i've  always wondered what would happen if one were to throw king cascone's name around. never had the opportunity. very cool.

d4l3d

"We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if mankind is to survive."
Albert Einstein

> -----Original Message-----
> From: whiprwill at yahoo.com
> Sent: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 13:38:10 -0700 (PDT)
> To: microsound at or8.net
> Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
> 
> wasnt it not too long ago that the viennese powerbookworms were all that
> & a few
> microchips short?
> 
> on another note, visited sweat records in little haiti, miami this
> weekend, and
> the woman taking money had tatoos on both arms, near the elbow:
> 'micro'  &  'sound'
> 
> i asked her if she was familiar with microsound.org, she did not appear
> to be,
> but she knew who kim cascone was and described microsound as a 'genre'...
> gave
> me two thumbs up for getting (her version of) the reference...
> 
> ~will soderberg
> white-rose.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

____________________________________________________________
FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth

From list at isjtar.org  Thu Apr 14 08:16:06 2011
From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 14:16:06 +0200
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=MWNOPcK0LEz+pYfP5xT=6W6zzYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8518B5D2-9C5C-4F58-9EA8-A5C86EC81B62@gmail.com>
	<C6E7C8EB-0E64-4FA0-96D3-FC1D7EC2560E@isjtar.org>
	<E1679519-986D-4F5B-9D5A-88B7DC685C8A@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=MWNOPcK0LEz+pYfP5xT=6W6zzYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ACA12769-7438-4FA4-A800-3B8B6AC2CA51@isjtar.org>

damn straight : )
about point 1 though, I am generally sceptic about "open", that is to say they many costs involved, a mac may not be the most expensive one, with regards to knowledge, time etc.
but valid points all the same.

On 13 Apr 2011, at 22:58, David Powers wrote:

> I think it is clear that there are now three "Big Brother" companies
> in the technology world.
> 
> It amazes me that one of these three companies has managed to create a
> set of consumers who seem to shut off their brains when it comes to
> the commodities and practices produced by said company, even when
> those consumers are supposedly politically aware artists. I use
> technology by all three companies, in the end I'm going to use
> whatever gets the job done.
> 
> But I have BIG problems with:
> 
> 1. Developing "open" tools for a platform that is not only closed, but
> PROHIBITIVELY expensive for many working people (we see this with many
> art/music+technology tools developed at universities)
> 2. Cheerfully providing free marketing for said platform without doing
> any critique
> 3. Hypocritically denouncing one of the other companies for being
> "closed" and "evil" without applying the same critique to the new kid
> on the block, which in my opinion is now both quite powerful, and
> engaged in practices that are as or perhaps even more disturbing than
> what the traditional evil giant.
> 
> Ironically, while on principle I dislike all monopolies, the
> traditional Big Brother company has opened up quite a lot and softened
> some of its practices.
> 
> ~David
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From cyborgk at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 12:33:40 2011
From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 11:33:40 -0500
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <ACA12769-7438-4FA4-A800-3B8B6AC2CA51@isjtar.org>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8518B5D2-9C5C-4F58-9EA8-A5C86EC81B62@gmail.com>
	<C6E7C8EB-0E64-4FA0-96D3-FC1D7EC2560E@isjtar.org>
	<E1679519-986D-4F5B-9D5A-88B7DC685C8A@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=MWNOPcK0LEz+pYfP5xT=6W6zzYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<ACA12769-7438-4FA4-A800-3B8B6AC2CA51@isjtar.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin+8jnSZfyWux1e4gF_es=wT6cAZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Well I make a living as a developer, and I can tell you that there's
no realistic alternate to using PC actually as far as cost, with a
$300 computer you are good to go, there are tons of wonderful free dev
tools on that platform (free, as in money not necessarily open
source). If I was going to make a tool "for the masses" I would
definitely do it on PC no matter what aversion I have to the monopoly
supplying the operating system. I do think that whatever you think of
PC, it's definitely lowered the cost barrier for doing a lot of things
with computers.

I used a Mac to develop on the job and the same types of tools simply
don't exist, or if they do they cost a lot. I found it to be really
painful trying to code on that machine even after trying to tweak my
environment for a year.

I like Linux for running servers of course, but I just don't have the
kind of time to figure out how to run such a system well I always got
stuck and gave up though I made a few trials. I still would like to
maybe give it another go but life is short and I'd have to be doing a
project where it was clearly the best choice and wouldn't feel like a
huge time drain. I'm not an IT person so generally I don't have a lot
of time to worry about what's going on with my OS under the hood...

Anyway, just to keep this tied back to music, what goes for dev also
goes for music in my opinion, you can make really good stuff using all
free tools on a PC if you so desire, a lot of weird plugins I like
just don't exist on any other platform...

~David

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 7:16 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
> damn straight : )
> about point 1 though, I am generally sceptic about "open", that is to say they many costs involved, a mac may not be the most expensive one, with regards to knowledge, time etc.
> but valid points all the same.
>
> On 13 Apr 2011, at 22:58, David Powers wrote:
>
>> I think it is clear that there are now three "Big Brother" companies
>> in the technology world.
>>
>> It amazes me that one of these three companies has managed to create a
>> set of consumers who seem to shut off their brains when it comes to
>> the commodities and practices produced by said company, even when
>> those consumers are supposedly politically aware artists. I use
>> technology by all three companies, in the end I'm going to use
>> whatever gets the job done.
>>
>> But I have BIG problems with:
>>
>> 1. Developing "open" tools for a platform that is not only closed, but
>> PROHIBITIVELY expensive for many working people (we see this with many
>> art/music+technology tools developed at universities)
>> 2. Cheerfully providing free marketing for said platform without doing
>> any critique
>> 3. Hypocritically denouncing one of the other companies for being
>> "closed" and "evil" without applying the same critique to the new kid
>> on the block, which in my opinion is now both quite powerful, and
>> engaged in practices that are as or perhaps even more disturbing than
>> what the traditional evil giant.
>>
>> Ironically, while on principle I dislike all monopolies, the
>> traditional Big Brother company has opened up quite a lot and softened
>> some of its practices.
>>
>> ~David
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>

From list at isjtar.org  Thu Apr 14 13:10:31 2011
From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 19:10:31 +0200
Subject: [microsound] iPhone apps
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin+8jnSZfyWux1e4gF_es=wT6cAZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B3644630-393E-44BF-80E5-FC3A27E3EEDC@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=3+j6byJHEhsaUSBnUL32-aA0Jsg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BA5C1322-D2BF-4294-B896-EA65DE5A0F0A@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikyvG7GFeFY0eYqrgdfOcVokQ4tJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5BE1A72B-BA7D-40DD-B513-BAD3307108B1@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTikmoe5f6NsvXMdJArE4HCwM+qjKQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8518B5D2-9C5C-4F58-9EA8-A5C86EC81B62@gmail.com>
	<C6E7C8EB-0E64-4FA0-96D3-FC1D7EC2560E@isjtar.org>
	<E1679519-986D-4F5B-9D5A-88B7DC685C8A@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=MWNOPcK0LEz+pYfP5xT=6W6zzYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<ACA12769-7438-4FA4-A800-3B8B6AC2CA51@isjtar.org>
	<BANLkTin+8jnSZfyWux1e4gF_es=wT6cAZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EAE42FBF-CACE-4E72-AB94-B02B2DCC83AD@isjtar.org>

I agree, I was especially referring to Linux as I found it very time-consuming, so in the end expensive to get my setup working.
And a Mac is expensive, for the stuff I did it also spared me an amount of money, easily justifying the investment.
Windows is no option for me, though this vvvv thing looks interesting.

The point about the funky plug-ins is not really true imo, every platform has nice and unique applications, seems pretty evenly spread to me.

anyway, this is getting pretty OT :)

On 14 Apr 2011, at 18:33, David Powers wrote:

> Well I make a living as a developer, and I can tell you that there's
> no realistic alternate to using PC actually as far as cost, with a
> $300 computer you are good to go, there are tons of wonderful free dev
> tools on that platform (free, as in money not necessarily open
> source). If I was going to make a tool "for the masses" I would
> definitely do it on PC no matter what aversion I have to the monopoly
> supplying the operating system. I do think that whatever you think of
> PC, it's definitely lowered the cost barrier for doing a lot of things
> with computers.
> 
> I used a Mac to develop on the job and the same types of tools simply
> don't exist, or if they do they cost a lot. I found it to be really
> painful trying to code on that machine even after trying to tweak my
> environment for a year.
> 
> I like Linux for running servers of course, but I just don't have the
> kind of time to figure out how to run such a system well I always got
> stuck and gave up though I made a few trials. I still would like to
> maybe give it another go but life is short and I'd have to be doing a
> project where it was clearly the best choice and wouldn't feel like a
> huge time drain. I'm not an IT person so generally I don't have a lot
> of time to worry about what's going on with my OS under the hood...
> 
> Anyway, just to keep this tied back to music, what goes for dev also
> goes for music in my opinion, you can make really good stuff using all
> free tools on a PC if you so desire, a lot of weird plugins I like
> just don't exist on any other platform...
> 
> ~David
> 
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 7:16 AM, isjtar <list at isjtar.org> wrote:
>> damn straight : )
>> about point 1 though, I am generally sceptic about "open", that is to say they many costs involved, a mac may not be the most expensive one, with regards to knowledge, time etc.
>> but valid points all the same.
>> 
>> On 13 Apr 2011, at 22:58, David Powers wrote:
>> 
>>> I think it is clear that there are now three "Big Brother" companies
>>> in the technology world.
>>> 
>>> It amazes me that one of these three companies has managed to create a
>>> set of consumers who seem to shut off their brains when it comes to
>>> the commodities and practices produced by said company, even when
>>> those consumers are supposedly politically aware artists. I use
>>> technology by all three companies, in the end I'm going to use
>>> whatever gets the job done.
>>> 
>>> But I have BIG problems with:
>>> 
>>> 1. Developing "open" tools for a platform that is not only closed, but
>>> PROHIBITIVELY expensive for many working people (we see this with many
>>> art/music+technology tools developed at universities)
>>> 2. Cheerfully providing free marketing for said platform without doing
>>> any critique
>>> 3. Hypocritically denouncing one of the other companies for being
>>> "closed" and "evil" without applying the same critique to the new kid
>>> on the block, which in my opinion is now both quite powerful, and
>>> engaged in practices that are as or perhaps even more disturbing than
>>> what the traditional evil giant.
>>> 
>>> Ironically, while on principle I dislike all monopolies, the
>>> traditional Big Brother company has opened up quite a lot and softened
>>> some of its practices.
>>> 
>>> ~David
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From kanimmo at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 14:03:22 2011
From: kanimmo at gmail.com (Kurt Nimmo)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 13:03:22 -0500
Subject: [microsound] microsound Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10774.1302801052.5607.microsound@or8.net>
References: <mailman.10774.1302801052.5607.microsound@or8.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimzkVDaN9Zkh331oeE62cg3Sg0AFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Is Apple a monopoly? You bet. Is Microsoft? Yep. Do we have any other
choices? Ah, Linux, of course. Okay, now that we have that settled, who can
get all my equipment to work on a Linux computer? Guess I could pay
somebody. Now if they would only make a version of Ableton Live for that
platform... Last year I installed Ubuntu and tried to get this to work with
Wine so I could use Live... no dice. It didn't work right with the outboard
soundcard on my old ThinkPad (IBM, evil). So back to the corporatist demon
Bill Gates and MS... and when that machine died I got my boss to buy me a
MacBook Pro, since no way I could afford it.

Sorry for the sarcasm. Point is if you are going to produce music on a
personal computer you have so few choices. Linux is impossible unless you
are a Linux geek and have the time to scour to forums and find out how to
get things to work right.

I guess I could go back to acoustic.

For the record: I think Apple is as "evil" as MS. I am no way a Mac acolyte.
I just appreciate a computer that works, even if I can't afford to buy it.

Kurt
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From mis at artengine.ca  Thu Apr 14 16:30:12 2011
From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 16:30:12 -0400
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
Message-ID: <BANLkTimpwf=SBmHODHX5XYgv4N0o3i5j-Q@mail.gmail.com>

(please excuse the new subject line but the old one got digested under the
non-geeky control of a Mac operator) - oups.... sorry for the sarcasm...

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Kurt Nimmo <kanimmo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry for the sarcasm. Point is if you are going to produce music on a
> personal computer you have so few choices. Linux is impossible unless you
> are a Linux geek and have the time to scour to forums and find out how to
> get things to work right.


That's not exactly accurate.  It is impossible to make music with linux if
you want to use the tools that are made for other platforms (as you have
found out, that said, I had ableton live running in Wine some time ago but
it was not exactly usable).  But have you ever tried to play a trumpet the
way you would play a guitar (or vice-versa for that matter?)?  The choices
of tools to make music on personal computer are pretty much infinite (maybe
not, if you limit yourself!).

Correct me if I am wrong but you are simply taking for granted the knowledge
you have gained by using your current platform.  Whether it's Windows or
MacOS, each system has its quirks, bugs, workarounds and various tools that
are required to take full advantage of it.  I have been using linux for the
past 15 years.  Recently I was in a situation where I had to use a Mac for
an audio-visual project.  Guess what, I was banging my head against various
walls just because the system does not work the way it should (at least in
my linux geek opinion, which is the only correct way, right?).  If I want to
convert a video, I open a terminal I type ffmpeg with some options and I get
what I want.  On a Mac, what do I do?  I have to buy QuickTIme pro, find out
that the codec I want to convert to, is not supported, find a third party
software, learn it (just like you would have to learn ffmpeg's command line
options),  try it, find out that the software requires some additional
plugin and by the time I figured it out it informs me that my trial period
has run out and I have to buy a licence to use it.  But I have not yet tried
it and, as far as I can see, it cannot even do the simple transcode.  There
were other things that I needed to do but did not know how so I sought
advice from colleagues who had more experience with the platform (i.e. MacOS
geeks).  Mac OS simply does not "just work(tm)".  Yes, it "just works(tm)"
for email, internet and admiring pretty interface but beyond that you have
to learn some skills.  So don't you tell me that you don't have any "under
the hood" knowledge of MacOS.  If you do have such knowledge to some extent
(because we will agree that "under the hood" in MacOS and linux simply don't
reach the same depths), then you are a MacOS geek and let me remash your
statement: Mac is impossible to use for creative work unless you're a Mac
geek and you have the time to scour to forums and find out how things work
(I bet a buck that you have been to Ableton Forums even though it is such a
simple program).  Oh, and the cash to spend on applications which exist
simply because Apple does not provide the functionality because they prefer
to keep you locked in their formats, codecs and standards (which change
every so often, mind you, how many types of video output plugs have you seen
on a mac in the past 10 years?).  And I won't even mention DRM (although,
for people involved with digital creativity it should be top priority).

Just like in linux, software is buggy, it crashes, it makes you loose data,
it makes you pull your hair out, it makes you swear.  Yes, some applications
are more mature, but that's not the system's fault, it comes down to the
time span that such things are in existence.  Linux design philosophy is
also different.  It does not assume that users are stupid.  In the contrary,
it permits the user to tweak and customize every single aspect of the OS, it
gives her more control.  The workflow on linux is certainly different, it
certainly is not for everyone.  These are choices we make.  Not only about
the OS but software and hardware.  However, some manufacturers do not want
you to make choices.

That said, yes, I appreciated the month or so I worked full-time on a
MacBook Pro (or something).  Even within the first few days I said "I think
I could get used to this thing!" with a grin and twinkle in my eye.  My
partner looked at me in disbelief.  However, a month later I was happy to be
back in Linux.  I appreciate some of the ideas behind MacOS and certain
aspects that make your life easier but I would not be wiling to trade the
freedom and control I have over Linux (and I spare you the lecture about
licences, open-source and other stuff that also is very relevant.  I do have
other things to do at the moment).

Can somebody tell me how to run ProTools with a Hammerfall card?
Preferably on Linux. Ha!

./MiS
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From joostvdm at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 18:49:31 2011
From: joostvdm at gmail.com (Joost van der Molen)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 00:49:31 +0200
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimpwf=SBmHODHX5XYgv4N0o3i5j-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimpwf=SBmHODHX5XYgv4N0o3i5j-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=OovbRcPu8uTM54L66WA+-bC_k1Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Michal Seta <mis at artengine.ca> wrote:
> my linux geek opinion, which is the only correct way, right?). ?If I want to
> convert a video, I open a terminal I type ffmpeg with some options and I get
> what I want. ?On a Mac, what do I do? ?I have to buy QuickTIme pro, find out
> that the codec I want to convert to, is not supported, find a third party
> software, learn it (just like you would have to learn ffmpeg's command line
> options), ?try it, find out that the software requires some additional
> plugin and by the time I figured it out it informs me that my trial period
> has run out and I have to buy a licence to use it. ?But I have not yet tried
> it and, as far as I can see, it cannot even do the simple transcode. ?There
> were other things that I needed to do but did not know how so I sought

Or use the free ffmpeg for OS X ;)

From mis at artengine.ca  Thu Apr 14 21:26:32 2011
From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 21:26:32 -0400
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=OovbRcPu8uTM54L66WA+-bC_k1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimpwf=SBmHODHX5XYgv4N0o3i5j-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=OovbRcPu8uTM54L66WA+-bC_k1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinf9GWmWzqUVbh2+8-Qw0QTZm7BGg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Joost van der Molen <joostvdm at gmail.com>wrote:

> Or use the free ffmpeg for OS X ;)


I tried to use it, actually.  I got stuck in some strange loop of problems
with fink/MacOS and the only version I could install was the GUI version
which was far from intuitive (IIRC).  I ended up transcoding on Linux.  I am
sure that a MacOS geek would have figured it out in no time but this is to
show you how important is acquired knowledge, whether we are aware of it or
not.
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From prolepsis at gmail.com  Thu Apr 14 22:57:17 2011
From: prolepsis at gmail.com (Al Matthews)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 22:57:17 -0400
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinf9GWmWzqUVbh2+8-Qw0QTZm7BGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimpwf=SBmHODHX5XYgv4N0o3i5j-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=OovbRcPu8uTM54L66WA+-bC_k1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinf9GWmWzqUVbh2+8-Qw0QTZm7BGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikZKZTPCwoSy937ku2PwyimgYjf-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Michael, I'm with you in spirit, in wallet, and in practice. But the
OSX-iOS experience is deeply refined. Restricted, and getting more
restricted; but refined. I don't think the Linux world has anything to
put alongside Final Cut Pro X, but please inform me if I'm wrong.
Blender I do love, but that's different.

I'll venture that a lot of Apple's stumbling in the ffmpeg gstreamer
world is legalese. In other words, there's a reason those codecs are
distributed as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. You see this
stratification in naive Ubuntu distributions just as clearly.

Sorry btw to keep going on and on about visual and video apps.

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 9:26 PM, Michal Seta <mis at artengine.ca> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Joost van der Molen <joostvdm at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Or use the free ffmpeg for OS X ;)
>
> I tried to use it, actually. ?I got stuck in some strange loop of problems
> with fink/MacOS and the only version I could install was the GUI version
> which was far from intuitive (IIRC). ?I ended up transcoding on Linux. ?I am
> sure that a MacOS geek would have figured it out in no time but this is to
> show you how important is acquired knowledge, whether we are aware of it or
> not.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>



-- 
Al Matthews

From mis at artengine.ca  Fri Apr 15 00:41:41 2011
From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 00:41:41 -0400
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikZKZTPCwoSy937ku2PwyimgYjf-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimpwf=SBmHODHX5XYgv4N0o3i5j-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=OovbRcPu8uTM54L66WA+-bC_k1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinf9GWmWzqUVbh2+8-Qw0QTZm7BGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZKZTPCwoSy937ku2PwyimgYjf-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim=Fv9z0YAZm04vaSYJGR30+k0OWQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 10:57 PM, Al Matthews <prolepsis at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michael, I'm with you in spirit, in wallet, and in practice. But the
> OSX-iOS experience is deeply refined. Restricted, and getting more
> restricted; but refined.
>

You completely missed the point.  I reacted to Kurt's comments not about
availability/maturity of audio/video apps in Linux vs. The Rest of the
World, I even stressed that point.  It is about the necessity of being
<insert your OS of choice> geek (at least to some extent) in order to
accomplish anything creatively with your computer.

But I don't understand the meaning of "refined experience" with regard to an
operating system.  I am not interested in "experiencing" the OS, I am
interested in using (or even creating) software so that others can
experience the result.  Yes, I want to have a pleasant experience using the
system but "refined" and "restricted" applied to the same OS does not sound
right.

I don't think the Linux world has anything to
> put alongside Final Cut Pro X, but please inform me if I'm wrong.
> Blender I do love, but that's different.


No, I don't think that there is a complete video editing suite in Linux
except for kdenlive and a couple of other (simple) tools. My understanding
is that you can edit multitrack video with kdenlive with some FX.  How it
compares with Final Cut, I don't know.  How Blender compares with 3DS Max or
Maya, I don't know either but that is not stopping you from loving it.


>
> I'll venture that a lot of Apple's stumbling in the ffmpeg gstreamer
> world is legalese.


I know nothing about it.  But I don't think that it is illegal to run either
ffmpeg or gstreamer on Mac OS.


> In other words, there's a reason those codecs are
> distributed as the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. You see this
> stratification in naive Ubuntu distributions just as clearly.
>

I am not sure I understand.  What is a naive Ubuntu distribution?
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly groups are defined by the gstreamer
maintainers, not Ubuntu or other distributions.  I don't understand why you
refer to them as strata, either.

I will reiterate that I am not attacking MacOS or any other OSs.  I chose to
work with Linux and that's my problem.  But I can also work with other
operating systems, I can trouble shoot them and I can get the job done.  And
that experience brings me to the realization that you have to be a <your
favourite OS> geek in order to get the job done (or at least pay a geek when
you're stuck).

./MiS
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From renato.fabbri at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 01:31:22 2011
From: renato.fabbri at gmail.com (Renato Fabbri)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 02:31:22 -0300
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinf9GWmWzqUVbh2+8-Qw0QTZm7BGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimpwf=SBmHODHX5XYgv4N0o3i5j-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=OovbRcPu8uTM54L66WA+-bC_k1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinf9GWmWzqUVbh2+8-Qw0QTZm7BGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin0T3tg0JVqOViT21L+h1rpfjAJtA@mail.gmail.com>

install numpy

$ python this_file_in_the_link_below.py
((( http://pastie.org/1751041 )))

hear something just with the minimum of structure:
some duration, volume, timber, pitch, temporal localization,
and spatial localization for each 'thing', 'note' or 'event', minimum
particle, atom.

and play the output: sequencia.wav

something like 'minimum-fi.py'. (does the term exist already?)
http://ubuntuone.com/p/kjV/

mess with the numbers in it and make music. When you
understand something in the code, mess with some structures and
do more music.

i think windows and mac-related practices lack
this kind of natural thinking (or materialization of ideas). Maybe in just
the same way as linux sometimes lacks some UI stuff for utilities...

ps. you can do granular synthesis and spectral music with that script.
Imagine the rest that is pure direct consequence..




2011/4/14 Michal Seta <mis at artengine.ca>:
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Joost van der Molen <joostvdm at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Or use the free ffmpeg for OS X ;)
>
> I tried to use it, actually. ?I got stuck in some strange loop of problems
> with fink/MacOS and the only version I could install was the GUI version
> which was far from intuitive (IIRC). ?I ended up transcoding on Linux. ?I am
> sure that a MacOS geek would have figured it out in no time but this is to
> show you how important is acquired knowledge, whether we are aware of it or
> not.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>



-- 
GNU/Linux User #479299
skype: fabbri.renato

From kim at anechoicmedia.com  Fri Apr 15 02:16:03 2011
From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone)
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 23:16:03 -0700
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
Message-ID: <4DA7E2A3.5060900@anechoicmedia.com>

with all due respect Kurt: you don't know what you are talking about and 
are just repeating ridiculous FUD you've heard

read why I switched from OS X to Linux here:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/08/linux-music-workflow-switching-from-mac-os-x-to-ubuntu-with-kim-cascone/

I just finished a new CD made *entirely* on Linux and I actually had an 
easier (and cheaper) time of editing and mixing a CD than on OS X

I use Ardour, Audacity, Pd and LADSPA plugs and have to say that I enjoy 
the heady power I now have versus the closed commercial boutique-ware I 
was using on OS X

as far as hardware goes: all laptops are designed and/or made in one of 
three factories in China and share many of the same chip sets with all 
other computer brands - i.e. pop the hood and see that there are no (or 
very little) magic Apple parts...

to wit: I've had two Dells running pretty much 24/7 for over two years 
now and not once have I experienced an issue or a technical hardware (or 
software) problem - they are both solid workhorses which I can't claim 
for any of the Apple products I've owned - read my article posted above

these statements reflect my opinion and is only my personal preference - 
no need for debates, flame wars or fanboy nonsense

that is all

From lsutton at libero.it  Fri Apr 15 03:53:24 2011
From: lsutton at libero.it (Lorenzo Sutton)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:53:24 +0200
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
In-Reply-To: <4DA7E2A3.5060900@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4DA7E2A3.5060900@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <4DA7F974.3080709@libero.it>

Hi Kim,

Really nice descriptive article, bravo.

Lorenzo.

Kim Cascone wrote:
> with all due respect Kurt: you don't know what you are talking about
> and are just repeating ridiculous FUD you've heard
>
> read why I switched from OS X to Linux here:
>
> http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/08/linux-music-workflow-switching-from-mac-os-x-to-ubuntu-with-kim-cascone/
>
>
> I just finished a new CD made *entirely* on Linux and I actually had
> an easier (and cheaper) time of editing and mixing a CD than on OS X
>
> I use Ardour, Audacity, Pd and LADSPA plugs and have to say that I
> enjoy the heady power I now have versus the closed commercial
> boutique-ware I was using on OS X
>
> as far as hardware goes: all laptops are designed and/or made in one
> of three factories in China and share many of the same chip sets with
> all other computer brands - i.e. pop the hood and see that there are
> no (or very little) magic Apple parts...
>
> to wit: I've had two Dells running pretty much 24/7 for over two years
> now and not once have I experienced an issue or a technical hardware
> (or software) problem - they are both solid workhorses which I can't
> claim for any of the Apple products I've owned - read my article
> posted above
>
> these statements reflect my opinion and is only my personal preference
> - no need for debates, flame wars or fanboy nonsense
>
> that is all
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>

From list at isjtar.org  Fri Apr 15 07:54:47 2011
From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 13:54:47 +0200
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
In-Reply-To: <4DA7F974.3080709@libero.it>
References: <4DA7E2A3.5060900@anechoicmedia.com> <4DA7F974.3080709@libero.it>
Message-ID: <E3686225-FD2F-4D4D-8C96-AA142C2606D8@isjtar.org>

with regards to Linux for audio/multimedia the basic point is YMMV - rinse and repeat.
linux is top notch for experimental stuff, but for me on my hardware it was just too cumbersome at the time.
for this classical studio boutique stuff, mac or win just because that's the commercial standard and most developed.

and now let's bury the poor horse ; )

On 15 Apr 2011, at 09:53, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:

> Hi Kim,
> 
> Really nice descriptive article, bravo.
> 
> Lorenzo.
> 
> Kim Cascone wrote:
>> with all due respect Kurt: you don't know what you are talking about
>> and are just repeating ridiculous FUD you've heard
>> 
>> read why I switched from OS X to Linux here:
>> 
>> http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/08/linux-music-workflow-switching-from-mac-os-x-to-ubuntu-with-kim-cascone/
>> 
>> 
>> I just finished a new CD made *entirely* on Linux and I actually had
>> an easier (and cheaper) time of editing and mixing a CD than on OS X
>> 
>> I use Ardour, Audacity, Pd and LADSPA plugs and have to say that I
>> enjoy the heady power I now have versus the closed commercial
>> boutique-ware I was using on OS X
>> 
>> as far as hardware goes: all laptops are designed and/or made in one
>> of three factories in China and share many of the same chip sets with
>> all other computer brands - i.e. pop the hood and see that there are
>> no (or very little) magic Apple parts...
>> 
>> to wit: I've had two Dells running pretty much 24/7 for over two years
>> now and not once have I experienced an issue or a technical hardware
>> (or software) problem - they are both solid workhorses which I can't
>> claim for any of the Apple products I've owned - read my article
>> posted above
>> 
>> these statements reflect my opinion and is only my personal preference
>> - no need for debates, flame wars or fanboy nonsense
>> 
>> that is all
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

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From joostvdm at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 09:38:02 2011
From: joostvdm at gmail.com (Joost van der Molen)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 15:38:02 +0200
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
In-Reply-To: <4DA7E2A3.5060900@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4DA7E2A3.5060900@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim72kiqjG4rafmjd8NmKqkNcjW1UA@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, FUD - didn't know there was a word for it!
In fact, it bugs me I didn't know..

"Hypnotized - distracted by desire..."

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com> wrote:
> with all due respect Kurt: you don't know what you are talking about and are
> just repeating ridiculous FUD you've heard
>
> read why I switched from OS X to Linux here:
>
> http://createdigitalmusic.com/2009/08/linux-music-workflow-switching-from-mac-os-x-to-ubuntu-with-kim-cascone/
>
> I just finished a new CD made *entirely* on Linux and I actually had an
> easier (and cheaper) time of editing and mixing a CD than on OS X
>
> I use Ardour, Audacity, Pd and LADSPA plugs and have to say that I enjoy the
> heady power I now have versus the closed commercial boutique-ware I was
> using on OS X
>
> as far as hardware goes: all laptops are designed and/or made in one of
> three factories in China and share many of the same chip sets with all other
> computer brands - i.e. pop the hood and see that there are no (or very
> little) magic Apple parts...
>
> to wit: I've had two Dells running pretty much 24/7 for over two years now
> and not once have I experienced an issue or a technical hardware (or
> software) problem - they are both solid workhorses which I can't claim for
> any of the Apple products I've owned - read my article posted above
>
> these statements reflect my opinion and is only my personal preference - no
> need for debates, flame wars or fanboy nonsense
>
> that is all
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>



-- 
Groeten,

Joost

From prolepsis at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 09:38:40 2011
From: prolepsis at gmail.com (Al Matthews)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:38:40 -0400
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin0T3tg0JVqOViT21L+h1rpfjAJtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimpwf=SBmHODHX5XYgv4N0o3i5j-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=OovbRcPu8uTM54L66WA+-bC_k1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinf9GWmWzqUVbh2+8-Qw0QTZm7BGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0T3tg0JVqOViT21L+h1rpfjAJtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimtH65HrUZD9z9n23ZYs5+KDwV1gg@mail.gmail.com>

> Maybe in just
> the same way as linux sometimes lacks some UI stuff for utilities...

The extent of my claims here. The rest is source-diving and opinion.

Thank you Renato. A lovely post. -Al

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:31 AM, Renato Fabbri <renato.fabbri at gmail.com> wrote:
> install numpy
>
> $ python this_file_in_the_link_below.py
> ((( http://pastie.org/1751041 )))
>
> hear something just with the minimum of structure:
> some duration, volume, timber, pitch, temporal localization,
> and spatial localization for each 'thing', 'note' or 'event', minimum
> particle, atom.
>
> and play the output: sequencia.wav
>
> something like 'minimum-fi.py'. (does the term exist already?)
> http://ubuntuone.com/p/kjV/
>
> mess with the numbers in it and make music. When you
> understand something in the code, mess with some structures and
> do more music.
>
> i think windows and mac-related practices lack
> this kind of natural thinking (or materialization of ideas). Maybe in just
> the same way as linux sometimes lacks some UI stuff for utilities...
>
> ps. you can do granular synthesis and spectral music with that script.
> Imagine the rest that is pure direct consequence..
>
>
>
>
> 2011/4/14 Michal Seta <mis at artengine.ca>:
>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Joost van der Molen <joostvdm at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Or use the free ffmpeg for OS X ;)
>>
>> I tried to use it, actually. ?I got stuck in some strange loop of problems
>> with fink/MacOS and the only version I could install was the GUI version
>> which was far from intuitive (IIRC). ?I ended up transcoding on Linux. ?I am
>> sure that a MacOS geek would have figured it out in no time but this is to
>> show you how important is acquired knowledge, whether we are aware of it or
>> not.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> GNU/Linux User #479299
> skype: fabbri.renato
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>



-- 
Al Matthews

From mis at artengine.ca  Fri Apr 15 09:50:12 2011
From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 09:50:12 -0400
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin0T3tg0JVqOViT21L+h1rpfjAJtA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimpwf=SBmHODHX5XYgv4N0o3i5j-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=OovbRcPu8uTM54L66WA+-bC_k1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinf9GWmWzqUVbh2+8-Qw0QTZm7BGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0T3tg0JVqOViT21L+h1rpfjAJtA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinbJ4GoYWcB4HBkZuMSBY=wJtsrXg@mail.gmail.com>

HI Renato,

Beautiful.  Did you know about these projects
http://www.briansimulator.org/docs/hears.html
http://code.google.com/p/pyo/

Could be a nice addition to your code, which I intend to dissect in the near
future.

./MiS

On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:31 AM, Renato Fabbri <renato.fabbri at gmail.com>wrote:

> install numpy
>
> $ python this_file_in_the_link_below.py
> ((( http://pastie.org/1751041 )))
>
> hear something just with the minimum of structure:
> some duration, volume, timber, pitch, temporal localization,
> and spatial localization for each 'thing', 'note' or 'event', minimum
> particle, atom.
>
> and play the output: sequencia.wav
>
> something like 'minimum-fi.py'. (does the term exist already?)
> http://ubuntuone.com/p/kjV/
>
> mess with the numbers in it and make music. When you
> understand something in the code, mess with some structures and
> do more music.
>
> i think windows and mac-related practices lack
> this kind of natural thinking (or materialization of ideas). Maybe in just
> the same way as linux sometimes lacks some UI stuff for utilities...
>
> ps. you can do granular synthesis and spectral music with that script.
> Imagine the rest that is pure direct consequence..
>
>
>
>
> 2011/4/14 Michal Seta <mis at artengine.ca>:
> > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Joost van der Molen <joostvdm at gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Or use the free ffmpeg for OS X ;)
> >
> > I tried to use it, actually.  I got stuck in some strange loop of
> problems
> > with fink/MacOS and the only version I could install was the GUI version
> > which was far from intuitive (IIRC).  I ended up transcoding on Linux.  I
> am
> > sure that a MacOS geek would have figured it out in no time but this is
> to
> > show you how important is acquired knowledge, whether we are aware of it
> or
> > not.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > microsound mailing list
> > microsound at microsound.org
> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> GNU/Linux User #479299
> skype: fabbri.renato
>
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From murphj8 at rpi.edu  Fri Apr 15 11:14:07 2011
From: murphj8 at rpi.edu (jason steven murphy)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 11:14:07 -0400
Subject: [microsound] Francisco Lopez: Hyper-Rainforest | 04/28-30,
	8 PM | EMPAC, Troy, NY
Message-ID: <08F93702-A947-4BC0-BB28-CC190398CE35@rpi.edu>

http://empac.rpi.edu/events/2011/spring/lopez/
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=113135805434396
PERFORMANCE
Francisco L?pez: Hyper-Rainforest
Friday-Saturday, April 28-30, 2011, 8 PM
Concert Hall
$15/10/5

World premiere of an 80 channel immersive concert based on a decade of natural sounds recorded in the world?s rain forests.

Rainforests are inhabited by an incredibly rich variety of sounds?much like a piece of electronic music: the astonishing variety of sounds comes from sources that are concrete yet overwhelmingly invisible.

Hyper-Rainforest is a monumental sound piece, both in duration and in how the sounds are projected to the Concert Hall. All music in this performance stems from field recordings?but it does not simulate the natural reality of the original locations. Instead, the work creates a sonic hyper-reality, a virtual world of sound and music that goes beyond a trip to a rainforest. The original materials are observed, analyzed, and composed to create a piece that surrounds the audience, moving deep into the sounds themselves and toward new sounds still rooted in their origins.

This world premiere commission was developed in residence at EMPAC.

+ Website: http://www.franciscolopez.net/
+ Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_L?pez_(musician)

Tickets are required and are available through the EMPAC box office for $15 general admission; $10 for students, seniors, and Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute faculty and staff; or $5 for Rensselaer students.

Evelyn's Caf? will open at 7 PM. Parking for this event is available in the Rensselaer parking lot on College Avenue. 

Additional event information can be found on the EMPAC website: http://www.empac.rpi.edu/. Questions? Call the EMPAC Box Office: 518.276.3921.

Francisco L?pez is an internationally recognized sound art and experimental music artist. He has 30 years of experience in sound creation and environmental recordings, and has been involved in hundreds of sound installations, field recordings, and concerts in over 60 countries. His extensive catalogue of sound pieces (with collaborations with more than 130 international artists) has been published worldwide by more than 200 recording companies. He has received three honorary mentions at the Ars Electronica Festival (Austria) and is the recipient of the Qwartz Award 2010 (France) for best sound anthology.

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From kim at anechoicmedia.com  Fri Apr 15 11:32:39 2011
From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:32:39 -0700
Subject: [microsound] ***my monthly reminder***
Message-ID: <4DA86517.70305@anechoicmedia.com>

in case some color blind .microsounders missed the red type splattered
on the microsound.org page:

this list is *not* meant for announcing anything
except new works you want to share with the community and/or get feedback on

please please please read the frickin' statement in BOLD RED LETTERS on
the same page you happened to sub from?

it is all right there is painfully unsubtle text
screaming at you in bold red:
***DO NOT POST ANNOUNCEMENTS, CALLS or OTHER non-RELEVANT CONTENT TO THE 
MAIN MICROSOUND LIST!!!***
there is another list for this
which you can sub to and announce and cross-post to












From michael_mantra at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 15 11:58:37 2011
From: michael_mantra at yahoo.com (Michael Mantra)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:58:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [microsound] ***my monthly reminder***
In-Reply-To: <4DA86517.70305@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <842609.77967.qm@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hello Kim,

      For all the newbies on this list, is it possible to provide the links to the web page you are referring to and maybe the location of the announcement of events?  That would help direct the lost souls who do not know their way around this list.  This might reduce the numberof infractions and you won't sound bitter about these infractions.  Gotta go and hopefully all is well with you all....



Michael Mantra




--- On Fri, 4/15/11, Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com> wrote:

> From: Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com>
> Subject: [microsound] ***my monthly reminder***
> To: "microsound_list" <microsound at or8.net>
> Date: Friday, April 15, 2011, 8:32 AM
> in case some color blind
> .microsounders missed the red type splattered
> on the microsound.org page:
> 
> this list is *not* meant for announcing anything
> except new works you want to share with the community
> and/or get feedback on
> 
> please please please read the frickin' statement in BOLD
> RED LETTERS on
> the same page you happened to sub from?
> 
> it is all right there is painfully unsubtle text
> screaming at you in bold red:
> ***DO NOT POST ANNOUNCEMENTS, CALLS or OTHER non-RELEVANT
> CONTENT TO THE MAIN MICROSOUND LIST!!!***
> there is another list for this
> which you can sub to and announce and cross-post to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> 

From michael_mantra at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 15 11:58:37 2011
From: michael_mantra at yahoo.com (Michael Mantra)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 08:58:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [microsound] ***my monthly reminder***
In-Reply-To: <4DA86517.70305@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <842609.77967.qm@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Hello Kim,

      For all the newbies on this list, is it possible to provide the links to the web page you are referring to and maybe the location of the announcement of events?  That would help direct the lost souls who do not know their way around this list.  This might reduce the numberof infractions and you won't sound bitter about these infractions.  Gotta go and hopefully all is well with you all....



Michael Mantra




--- On Fri, 4/15/11, Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com> wrote:

> From: Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com>
> Subject: [microsound] ***my monthly reminder***
> To: "microsound_list" <microsound at or8.net>
> Date: Friday, April 15, 2011, 8:32 AM
> in case some color blind
> .microsounders missed the red type splattered
> on the microsound.org page:
> 
> this list is *not* meant for announcing anything
> except new works you want to share with the community
> and/or get feedback on
> 
> please please please read the frickin' statement in BOLD
> RED LETTERS on
> the same page you happened to sub from?
> 
> it is all right there is painfully unsubtle text
> screaming at you in bold red:
> ***DO NOT POST ANNOUNCEMENTS, CALLS or OTHER non-RELEVANT
> CONTENT TO THE MAIN MICROSOUND LIST!!!***
> there is another list for this
> which you can sub to and announce and cross-post to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> 

From kanimmo at gmail.com  Fri Apr 15 20:00:04 2011
From: kanimmo at gmail.com (Kurt Nimmo)
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2011 19:00:04 -0500
Subject: [microsound] microsound Digest, Vol 28, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <mailman.10794.1302868509.5607.microsound@or8.net>
References: <mailman.10794.1302868509.5607.microsound@or8.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinDnB8p8X7K5pt=fbPWEG61RzoaXA@mail.gmail.com>

Kim, no disrespect taken. However, I am not sure I understand your response.
FUD? Well, my Scottish ancestors used this as a word to designate a certain
area of female anatomy, but I don't think this is what you meant. I
certainly am not fearful, uncertain, nor do I doubt Linux -- it simply does
not work for me and all the silly advocacy is bothersome, same as the Mac
advocacy and pettiness and acolyte behavior.

I have more FUD when it comes to the government than a mere OS.

I am not accusing you of such. I happen to work with a couple of Linux
critters who glare down the slope of their noses at us lowly Mac and Win
users.

I use a computer as a tool. It is not a philosophy for me. I use a Mac
because it works (for me) better than a Windows machine. I used the latter
for more than 20 years and did so with little complaint until a kettle of
idiots began exploiting the OS with malware and viruses. I was a web
developer in the mid-90s and hated Mac OS 9. I took a lot of heat for
departing the Mac Borg hive in favor of Windows.

I am weary of the OS wars.

Indeed, I don't know what I am talking about... or more precisely DOING when
it comes to Linux. I tried to understand, or rather DO, but it was too
complex and I was not approaching Linux from the standpoint of advocacy or
philosophical argument but rather searching for a more reliable tool. No
doubt it is. I simply did not have the time or inclination, part of that
attributed to the fact I am not 59 years old and feel as if I can't waste
precious and fleeting time on yet another learning curve... I use what works
and damn the monopolies and mercantile overtones.

Apple is a monster of course, just like MS... but then so is the Ford I
drive every day. I pay taxes to a government that bombs Afghan children. I
bet so does everybody who is reading this.

I just want to make music. Damn the politics.

Kurt
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From renato.fabbri at gmail.com  Sat Apr 16 01:19:44 2011
From: renato.fabbri at gmail.com (Renato Fabbri)
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 02:19:44 -0300
Subject: [microsound] On impossibility of linux
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinbJ4GoYWcB4HBkZuMSBY=wJtsrXg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimpwf=SBmHODHX5XYgv4N0o3i5j-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=OovbRcPu8uTM54L66WA+-bC_k1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinf9GWmWzqUVbh2+8-Qw0QTZm7BGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0T3tg0JVqOViT21L+h1rpfjAJtA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinbJ4GoYWcB4HBkZuMSBY=wJtsrXg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimtug32or2L4v_X_xPDf0VDf=M7tQ@mail.gmail.com>

does the term 'minimum-fi' exist?

any equivalent term for the idea?

((ps. not even envelopes where used.))

2011/4/15 Michal Seta <mis at artengine.ca>:
> HI Renato,
> Beautiful. ?Did you know about these projects
> http://www.briansimulator.org/docs/hears.html
> http://code.google.com/p/pyo/
> Could be a nice addition to your code, which I intend to dissect in the near
> future.
> ./MiS
>
> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 1:31 AM, Renato Fabbri <renato.fabbri at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> install numpy
>>
>> $ python this_file_in_the_link_below.py
>> ((( http://pastie.org/1751041 )))
>>
>> hear something just with the minimum of structure:
>> some duration, volume, timber, pitch, temporal localization,
>> and spatial localization for each 'thing', 'note' or 'event', minimum
>> particle, atom.
>>
>> and play the output: sequencia.wav
>>
>> something like 'minimum-fi.py'. (does the term exist already?)
>> http://ubuntuone.com/p/kjV/
>>
>> mess with the numbers in it and make music. When you
>> understand something in the code, mess with some structures and
>> do more music.
>>
>> i think windows and mac-related practices lack
>> this kind of natural thinking (or materialization of ideas). Maybe in just
>> the same way as linux sometimes lacks some UI stuff for utilities...
>>
>> ps. you can do granular synthesis and spectral music with that script.
>> Imagine the rest that is pure direct consequence..
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/4/14 Michal Seta <mis at artengine.ca>:
>> > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Joost van der Molen
>> > <joostvdm at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Or use the free ffmpeg for OS X ;)
>> >
>> > I tried to use it, actually. ?I got stuck in some strange loop of
>> > problems
>> > with fink/MacOS and the only version I could install was the GUI version
>> > which was far from intuitive (IIRC). ?I ended up transcoding on Linux.
>> > ?I am
>> > sure that a MacOS geek would have figured it out in no time but this is
>> > to
>> > show you how important is acquired knowledge, whether we are aware of it
>> > or
>> > not.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > microsound mailing list
>> > microsound at microsound.org
>> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> GNU/Linux User #479299
>> skype: fabbri.renato
>
>



-- 
GNU/Linux User #479299
skype: fabbri.renato

From list at isjtar.org  Thu Apr 21 16:32:03 2011
From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar)
Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:32:03 +0200
Subject: [microsound] RIP Max Mathews
Message-ID: <A37BE4DD-AFA4-41B4-A1A2-F8EB7AA7CBA2@isjtar.org>

Max Mathews died today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Mathews
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