[microsound] Golden Ratio discovery [may be of interest to someone]

[David Powers]

Well, three reasons:

1. Because I'm very influenced by specifically Jewish philosophers and
the Jewish tradition, and it comes up quite a bit in the philosophy
that I read... I don't spend my time reading blogs and internet
discussions, I read actual books where Godwin's law isn't a factor. I
don't really think you should change your ideas because people who get
all their information via the internet have stereotypical reactions.

2. Because of the role that technology and science played in that event.

3. It's clearly a kind of worst case scenario for the human race.

But anyway my overall point doesn't have to do with that, it is: I'm
trying to challenge the idea that there is such a thing as "neutral"
material, even in the realm of science and math and acoustics. Facts
are never just facts. I prefer art that reflects the human condition,
not the "music of the spheres".

For instance, I have a real problem with the underlying philosophy of,
say, Xenakis, despite the fact that he introduces some great
compositional tools. Stockhausen is another composer whose philosophy
is problematic to me, and I do think it impacts the kind of work they
do and its aesthetic value.

~David

On Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Michael Pulsford
<michael.pulsford at gmail.com> wrote:
> No offence David, but if you could have easily mentioned one of a million
> other events, and given Godwin's
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law), why mention Auschwitz?
> Cheers,
> Mike
>
> sings! http://www.myspace.com/amachineforfinding
> drums! http://www.myspace.com/battlesnake
> narrates! http://theatreofcomets.blogspot.com
>
>
> 2010/1/12 d4l3d <d4l3d at inbox.com>
>>
>> And I promise to think twice before hitting send again. I was foolish
>> enough to think this was an innocent offering, not worthy of comment. Should
>> have realized I might provoke the schizm between faith-based and
>> reality-based creation (being sarcastic, don't hit me). Back to lurking.
>> Maybe in another 1.6180339887... years.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: babilano at chello.nl
>> Sent: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 21:01:14 +0100
>> To: microsound at microsound.org
>> Subject: Re: [microsound] Golden Ratio discovery [may be of interest to
>> someone]
>>
>> I hereby swear to never refer to the holocaust or the nazi's to make a
>> point ever again.
>> serge
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 1:45 PM, David Powers <cyborgk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> As per these claims that "the universe is a complete whole," I can
>> only say that if this is so, then in a world that produced Auschwitz,
>> "the universe is a complete HELL."
>>
>> I prefer to imagine that reality is ontologically open, creation is
>> incomplete, and freedom is a real though extremely fragile
>> possibility.
>>
>> This profoundly influences my idea of music, in that I do not believe
>> great music establishes some perfect mythical harmony between the
>> smallest details and the whole. In my view, music should struggle
>> against such ideological harmony, without necessarily abandoning all
>> structure or denying the relationships between micro and macro
>> structures. Late Beethoven piano pieces and string quartets are
>> excellent examples of such an approach.
>>
>> I agree with you to an extent on "school maths", although I personally
>> think that in the digital age, it's impossible to escape the reign of
>> mathematics, and so perhaps we shouldn't ignore math but instead try
>> to subvert it.
>>
>> PS. The idea of "Golden Ratio Disco" quite amuses me in some way,
>> though I'm somewhat frightened to hear what such a thing sounds like!
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Chris Bullen
>> <auralbeesty at btinternet.com> wrote:
>> > When I first saw this appear in my mailbox, I thought it said "Golden
>> > Ratio
>> > Disco".
>> > Was not sure what it was going to be about but it looked as if this
>> > might be
>> > a kind of humorous approach or some mental piece of free/shareware. But
>> > no,
>> > it was back to the old classical attempt to find mathematical
>> > perfection.
>> > Over 30 years ago, when I was at art school, plenty of dull work was
>> > produce
>> > by colleagues claiming they were using a "Golden Section", certainly in
>> > straight painting it never made any great impression on me (one way or
>> > another), all I thought was "fuck it, school maths! I left home to get
>> > away
>> > from this".
>> > Cheers Chrisb
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: Robert Lewis <ionizing at gmail.com>
>> > To: microsound at microsound.org
>> > Sent: Sunday, 10 January, 2010 16:18:37
>> > Subject: Re: [microsound] Golden Ratio discovery [may be of interest to
>> > someone]
>> >
>> > 1) What do you mean by coherence?
>> >
>> > systematic consistency across all time and space scales
>> >
>> > 2) And how does this relate to the
>> > practice of music?
>> >
>> > the universe is a complete whole
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 1:03 AM, David Powers <cyborgk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What do you mean by coherence? And how does this relate to the
>> >> practice of music?
>> >>
>> >> ***
>> >>
>> >> Hypothesis:
>> >> Music is not only numbers, mathematics, and structure, but also what
>> >> is irreducible to those things. The musician struggles with numbers,
>> >> until they cry out in pain. Then music becomes messianic
>> >> mathematics--the language of utopia.
>> >>
>> >> ~David
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 9:16 PM, Robert Lewis <ionizing at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > there are few strange coincidences in the universe, and no paradoxes
>> >> > but
>> >> > in
>> >> > perception.  it is meaningful as another example of the golden ratio
>> >> > in
>> >> > the
>> >> > natural world, for those of us looking for coherence in all scales of
>> >> > nature
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 9:29 PM, David Powers <cyborgk at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> My first thought on reading this, is to ask whether such a discovery
>> >> >> is in any way meaningful, or whether it should be viewed as merely a
>> >> >> strange coincidence?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ~David
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Sat, Jan 9, 2010 at 7:56 PM, d4l3d <d4l3d at inbox.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Found this interesting.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > For those of us who have a thing for Fibonnaci/Golden Ratio, this
>> >> >> > was
>> >> >> > recently posted through Slashdot:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://esciencenews.com/articles/2010/01/07/golden.ratio.discovered.a.quantum.world
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > May be useful to someone.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >    s    4   n  s [moi]
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ________________________________
>> >> >> > Free 3D Earth Screensaver
>> >> >> > Watch the Earth right on your desktop! Check it out at
>> >> >> > www.inbox.com/earth
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
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>> >> >> >
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