From dariusz.edvarese at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 23:35:09 2010
From: dariusz.edvarese at gmail.com (Dariusz Roberte)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:35:09 +1000
Subject: [microsound] microacoustic
In-Reply-To: <4B5F47DF.7020109@skynet.be>
References: <4B5F2F1E.9020009@anechoicmedia.com> <4B5F47DF.7020109@skynet.be>
Message-ID: <a1c9bb861002012035p6f67c236i3b39b5cca8543ead@mail.gmail.com>

I'm having trouble deciding on what sounds & structures are most relevant -
& usable - for this project. Any suggestions?

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 5:51 AM, mik <mprims at skynet.be> wrote:

>
>
> Kim Cascone schreef:
>
>  how is everyone coming with their pieces for this project?
>>
>>
> i uploaded something yesterday (the first time since bufferFuct).
>
>
> m
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
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From touch at klanggold.net  Tue Feb  2 01:05:27 2010
From: touch at klanggold.net (Klanggold)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 07:05:27 +0100
Subject: [microsound] microacoustic
In-Reply-To: <a1c9bb861002012035p6f67c236i3b39b5cca8543ead@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B5F2F1E.9020009@anechoicmedia.com> <4B5F47DF.7020109@skynet.be>
	<a1c9bb861002012035p6f67c236i3b39b5cca8543ead@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50E008FD-CF29-4853-A992-1B0AA8BF6029@klanggold.net>

i?m  having trouble to upload the file since two days... i wrote many emails, but it seems, that noone receiving them.

Andreas


Am 02.02.2010 um 05:35 schrieb Dariusz Roberte:

> I'm having trouble deciding on what sounds & structures are most relevant - & usable - for this project. Any suggestions?
> 
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 5:51 AM, mik <mprims at skynet.be> wrote:
> 
> 
> Kim Cascone schreef:
> 
> how is everyone coming with their pieces for this project?
> 
> 
> i uploaded something yesterday (the first time since bufferFuct).
> 
> 
> m
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

____________________________________
KLANGGOLD
label for experimental, avantgarde, improvised & electronic audioart

c/o andreas usenbenz
www.klanggold.net


be a friend:
www.myspace.com/klanggold
www.twitter.com/klanggold

news:

kg007/ Morgan Craft - Morgan Kraft (digital)
(file under: downbeat, improvisation, ambient, noise)


still hot:

kg006/ Nobile- Mariella (digital + special limited cd version)
(file under: experimental, piano music, ambient, improvisation)

kg005/ Viirus- The Virus Album 
(file under: experimental, Jazz, free jazz, soundscapes)

kg004/ Jens D?ring & Ulrich Troyer- 20050429 
(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)

kg003/ 3Banditos- Sympathy For The Donkey 
(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)

kg002/ Jair Rohm Parker Wells- AMDG
(file under: experimental, noise, jazz)

kg001/ Nobile- Pelktron 
(file under: experimental, ambient, noise, new music)


forthcoming releases:

haruki - snowed in food shelter (kg008)

jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - salat (kg009)

jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - wurst (kg010)


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From akisd1 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 02:56:26 2010
From: akisd1 at yahoo.com (akis daoutis)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 23:56:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [microsound] resend: ***microacoustic music project***
In-Reply-To: <4B648C19.6010809@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <231827.3868.qm@web30401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am sorry for the delay...
I uploaded Hyperstings

Layers of cut and stretched sounds of piano strings played with an ebow
thanks
Akis Daoutis
?
?

--- On Sat, 1/30/10, Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com> wrote:


From: Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com>
Subject: [microsound] resend: ***microacoustic music project***
To: "microsound_list" <microsound at or8.net>
Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 11:44 AM


============================
***MONDAY IS THE DEADLINE***
============================


.microsound community project: microacoustic music

what is .microsound? what will it sound like in 10 years time?
is it purely music made via digital means or can it shape shift into
using acoustic musical instruments?
what is the sound of microacoustic music?
let's find out
each microsound member gets a chance to describe what microacoustic
music sounds like to them


GUIDELINES:

- length: all works must be 2 minutes maximum

- deadline: February 1 2010

- mp3 files: filenames use only ALPHANUMERICS; i.e. NO spaces
(underbars_and-hyphens-are-OK), stereo, encoded at 192 - 320kbps and
have ID3 tags!! please make sure they have ID3 tags!

content: all sound sources are acoustic musical instruments
with NO processing other than the following:
- mixing/layering
- editing (cut 'n paste)
- slowing down or speeding up
- filtering/EQ

instruments can be detuned, woodwinds played as percussion, stick a sax
mouthpiece on a bassoon, contact mic'd, deconstructed, use extended
techniques, destroyed or played 'properly' then (de)composed in editing

files should be placed here:

http://www.microsound.org/repository/

there is also a link on the microsound.org front page

***you MUST be sub'd to the list before you are allowed to upload files

the server checks for you against the list of sub'ers

if you are having trouble write to Paulo or John and ask them to update
the list
(has to be done by hand IIRC)

___remember to name and tag your files properly or they will be taken
down___



_______________________________________________
microsound mailing list
microsound at microsound.org
http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound



      
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From akisd1 at yahoo.com  Tue Feb  2 02:56:26 2010
From: akisd1 at yahoo.com (akis daoutis)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 23:56:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [microsound] resend: ***microacoustic music project***
In-Reply-To: <4B648C19.6010809@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <231827.3868.qm@web30401.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am sorry for the delay...
I uploaded Hyperstings

Layers of cut and stretched sounds of piano strings played with an ebow
thanks
Akis Daoutis
?
?

--- On Sat, 1/30/10, Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com> wrote:


From: Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com>
Subject: [microsound] resend: ***microacoustic music project***
To: "microsound_list" <microsound at or8.net>
Date: Saturday, January 30, 2010, 11:44 AM


============================
***MONDAY IS THE DEADLINE***
============================


.microsound community project: microacoustic music

what is .microsound? what will it sound like in 10 years time?
is it purely music made via digital means or can it shape shift into
using acoustic musical instruments?
what is the sound of microacoustic music?
let's find out
each microsound member gets a chance to describe what microacoustic
music sounds like to them


GUIDELINES:

- length: all works must be 2 minutes maximum

- deadline: February 1 2010

- mp3 files: filenames use only ALPHANUMERICS; i.e. NO spaces
(underbars_and-hyphens-are-OK), stereo, encoded at 192 - 320kbps and
have ID3 tags!! please make sure they have ID3 tags!

content: all sound sources are acoustic musical instruments
with NO processing other than the following:
- mixing/layering
- editing (cut 'n paste)
- slowing down or speeding up
- filtering/EQ

instruments can be detuned, woodwinds played as percussion, stick a sax
mouthpiece on a bassoon, contact mic'd, deconstructed, use extended
techniques, destroyed or played 'properly' then (de)composed in editing

files should be placed here:

http://www.microsound.org/repository/

there is also a link on the microsound.org front page

***you MUST be sub'd to the list before you are allowed to upload files

the server checks for you against the list of sub'ers

if you are having trouble write to Paulo or John and ask them to update
the list
(has to be done by hand IIRC)

___remember to name and tag your files properly or they will be taken
down___



_______________________________________________
microsound mailing list
microsound at microsound.org
http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound



      
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From macdara at email.com  Tue Feb  2 07:36:44 2010
From: macdara at email.com (macdara at email.com)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 07:36:44 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Composition courses in Berlin
Message-ID: <8CC721B8323B778-8CC-40BC@web-mmc-d03.sysops.aol.com>




Just wondering if anyone has any inside info on the composition courses in the TU and Hanns Eisler [undergrad] or elsewhere in Berlin. Will be applying shortly.

Macdara
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From reinholdfriedl at zeitkratzer.de  Tue Feb  2 08:04:42 2010
From: reinholdfriedl at zeitkratzer.de (Reinhold Friedl)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 14:04:42 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Composition courses in Berlin
In-Reply-To: <8CC721B8323B778-8CC-40BC@web-mmc-d03.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC721B8323B778-8CC-40BC@web-mmc-d03.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <002801caa408$4ac182d0$e0448870$@de>

There are two schools:

 

Hanns-Eisler:  <http://www.hfm-berlin.de/en/Homepage.html>
http://www.hfm-berlin.de/en/Homepage.html

 

And Universit?t der K?nste (former Hochschule der K?nste):

http://www.udk-berlin.de/sites/content/topics/colleges/music/study_courses/i
ndex_eng.html

 

and they have also ?sound studies?:

http://www.udk-berlin.de/sites/content/topics/colleges/zentralinstitutfuerwe
iterbildung/sound_studies___acoustic_communication/index_eng.html

 

good luck

Reinhold

 

Reinhold Friedl

Graefestr.5

10967 Berlin

Germany

 

www.reinhold-friedl.de

www.zeitkratzer.de

 

Von: microsound-bounces at or8.net [mailto:microsound-bounces at or8.net] Im
Auftrag von macdara at email.com
Gesendet: Dienstag, 2. Februar 2010 13:37
An: microsound at microsound.org
Betreff: [microsound] Composition courses in Berlin

 

 

Just wondering if anyone has any inside info on the composition courses in
the TU and Hanns Eisler [undergrad] or elsewhere in Berlin. Will be applying
shortly.

 

Macdara

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From paulo.mouat at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 12:17:55 2010
From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 12:17:55 -0500
Subject: [microsound] microacoustic
In-Reply-To: <50E008FD-CF29-4853-A992-1B0AA8BF6029@klanggold.net>
References: <4B5F2F1E.9020009@anechoicmedia.com> <4B5F47DF.7020109@skynet.be>
	<a1c9bb861002012035p6f67c236i3b39b5cca8543ead@mail.gmail.com>
	<50E008FD-CF29-4853-A992-1B0AA8BF6029@klanggold.net>
Message-ID: <424ce301002020917x28551601jd58a48298ff8569a@mail.gmail.com>

Did you register with the repository? You need to register with the same
email account you use on the microsound list.

Let me know if you have any issues.

//p
http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Klanggold <touch at klanggold.net> wrote:

> i?m  having trouble to upload the file since two days... i wrote many
> emails, but it seems, that noone receiving them.
>
> Andreas
>
>
>  Am 02.02.2010 um 05:35 schrieb Dariusz Roberte:
>
> I'm having trouble deciding on what sounds & structures are most relevant -
> & usable - for this project. Any suggestions?
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 5:51 AM, mik <mprims at skynet.be> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Kim Cascone schreef:
>>
>> how is everyone coming with their pieces for this project?
>>>
>>>
>> i uploaded something yesterday (the first time since bufferFuct).
>>
>>
>> m
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
>             ____________________________________
>     KLANGGOLD
> label for experimental, avantgarde, improvised & electronic audioart
>
> c/o andreas usenbenz
> www.klanggold.net
>
>
> be a friend:
> www.myspace.com/klanggold
> www.twitter.com/klanggold
>
> *news:*
> *
> *
> *
> kg007/ Morgan Craft - Morgan Kraft (digital)
> (file under: downbeat, improvisation, ambient, noise)
> *
> *
> *
>
> still hot:
> *
> *
> *kg006/ Nobile- Mariella (digital + special limited cd version)
> (file under: experimental, piano music, ambient, improvisation)
> *
> *
> *
>  kg005/ Viirus- The Virus Album
> *(file under: experimental, Jazz, free jazz, soundscapes)*
>
> kg004/ Jens D?ring & Ulrich Troyer- 20050429
> *(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)*
>
> kg003/ 3Banditos- Sympathy For The Donkey
> *(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)*
>
> kg002/ Jair Rohm Parker Wells- AMDG
> *(file under: experimental, noise, jazz)*
>
> kg001/ Nobile- Pelktron
> *(file under: experimental, ambient, noise, new music)*
>
> *
> *
> *forthcoming releases:*
>
> haruki - snowed in food shelter (kg008)
>
> jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - salat (kg009)
>
> jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - wurst (kg010)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
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From erik at thuisbasis.net  Tue Feb  2 12:43:06 2010
From: erik at thuisbasis.net (Erik Maes)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 18:43:06 +0100
Subject: [microsound] microacoustic
In-Reply-To: <4B5F2F1E.9020009@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B5F2F1E.9020009@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <4B68642A.3000501@thuisbasis.net>

It was great fun doing this project, by the way.

Kim Cascone wrote:
> how is everyone coming with their pieces for this project?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From touch at klanggold.net  Tue Feb  2 15:27:15 2010
From: touch at klanggold.net (Klanggold)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 21:27:15 +0100
Subject: [microsound] microacoustic
In-Reply-To: <424ce301002020917x28551601jd58a48298ff8569a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B5F2F1E.9020009@anechoicmedia.com> <4B5F47DF.7020109@skynet.be>
	<a1c9bb861002012035p6f67c236i3b39b5cca8543ead@mail.gmail.com>
	<50E008FD-CF29-4853-A992-1B0AA8BF6029@klanggold.net>
	<424ce301002020917x28551601jd58a48298ff8569a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A637D781-0475-4EF3-9418-69954FE123D5@klanggold.net>

Hey. Thanks a lot for your answer.  I tried to Login or to Register  
many times, but Every Time the System says me that this Mail Adress is  
not registered.
If i Look into the mailing List. There is my Adress. Is there also an  
other mailing List which Inhaber to Register ? Andreas



Am 02.02.2010 um 18:17 schrieb Paulo Mouat <paulo.mouat at gmail.com>:

> Did you register with the repository? You need to register with the  
> same email account you use on the microsound list.
>
> Let me know if you have any issues.
>
> //p
> http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Klanggold <touch at klanggold.net> wrote:
> i?m  having trouble to upload the file since two days... i wrote man 
> y emails, but it seems, that noone receiving them.
>
> Andreas
>
>
> Am 02.02.2010 um 05:35 schrieb Dariusz Roberte:
>
>> I'm having trouble deciding on what sounds & structures are most  
>> relevant - & usable - for this project. Any suggestions?
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 5:51 AM, mik <mprims at skynet.be> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Kim Cascone schreef:
>>
>> how is everyone coming with their pieces for this project?
>>
>>
>> i uploaded something yesterday (the first time since bufferFuct).
>>
>>
>> m
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> ____________________________________
> KLANGGOLD
> label for experimental, avantgarde, improvised & electronic audioart
>
> c/o andreas usenbenz
> www.klanggold.net
>
>
> be a friend:
> www.myspace.com/klanggold
> www.twitter.com/klanggold
>
> news:
>
> kg007/ Morgan Craft - Morgan Kraft (digital)
> (file under: downbeat, improvisation, ambient, noise)
>
>
> still hot:
>
> kg006/ Nobile- Mariella (digital + special limited cd version)
> (file under: experimental, piano music, ambient, improvisation)
>
> kg005/ Viirus- The Virus Album
> (file under: experimental, Jazz, free jazz, soundscapes)
>
> kg004/ Jens D?ring & Ulrich Troyer- 20050429
> (file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)
>
> kg003/ 3Banditos- Sympathy For The Donkey
> (file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)
>
> kg002/ Jair Rohm Parker Wells- AMDG
> (file under: experimental, noise, jazz)
>
> kg001/ Nobile- Pelktron
> (file under: experimental, ambient, noise, new music)
>
>
> forthcoming releases:
>
> haruki - snowed in food shelter (kg008)
>
> jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - salat (kg009)
>
> jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - wurst (kg010)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
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From kim at anechoicmedia.com  Tue Feb  2 15:53:47 2010
From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 12:53:47 -0800
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day 2010
Message-ID: <4B6890DB.2080702@anechoicmedia.com>

new Pi Day project

rules:
- the piece must make use of the constant known as Pi = 3.14159 in some way
- each piece should be EXACTLY 3 minutes and 14 seconds in length
- file format is mp3 and ALL ID3 TAGS MUST BE CORRECTLY ENTERED or the 
piece will be deleted from the server

deadline: Friday March 12 2010

server info: you must log into the project server using the SAME email 
address you are sub'd to this list with
if you experience difficulties gaining access then ask someone on the 
list for assistance

ladies and gentlemen,
happy calculations and computations



From diosdispone at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 17:17:28 2010
From: diosdispone at gmail.com (gerardo figueroa)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:17:28 -0300
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day 2010
In-Reply-To: <4B6890DB.2080702@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B6890DB.2080702@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <cde7886c1002021417w1ded87a1od699444f0cc3fbc1@mail.gmail.com>

i'm in this one! :)
thanx

g

On 2/2/10, Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com> wrote:
> new Pi Day project
>
>  rules:
>  - the piece must make use of the constant known as Pi = 3.14159 in some way
>  - each piece should be EXACTLY 3 minutes and 14 seconds in length
>  - file format is mp3 and ALL ID3 TAGS MUST BE CORRECTLY ENTERED or the
> piece will be deleted from the server
>
>  deadline: Friday March 12 2010
>
>  server info: you must log into the project server using the SAME email
> address you are sub'd to this list with
>  if you experience difficulties gaining access then ask someone on the list
> for assistance
>
>  ladies and gentlemen,
>  happy calculations and computations
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  microsound mailing list
>  microsound at microsound.org
>  http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>


-- 
gerardo figueroa rodr?guez
gfr broadcasting system
works in [constant} progress
since 1988
http://gfr.tumblr.com/
http://gfrwurlitzer.tumblr.com/
dios dispone

From thierrybernardgotteland at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 21:26:56 2010
From: thierrybernardgotteland at gmail.com (Thierry Bernard Gotteland)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:26:56 +0700
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day 2010
In-Reply-To: <cde7886c1002021417w1ded87a1od699444f0cc3fbc1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B6890DB.2080702@anechoicmedia.com>
	<cde7886c1002021417w1ded87a1od699444f0cc3fbc1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fcb9e70e1002021826g77f6742ew9994652d6daf769f@mail.gmail.com>

noted-In!

On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 5:17 AM, gerardo figueroa <diosdispone at gmail.com>wrote:

> i'm in this one! :)
> thanx
>
> g
>
> On 2/2/10, Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com> wrote:
> > new Pi Day project
> >
> >  rules:
> >  - the piece must make use of the constant known as Pi = 3.14159 in some
> way
> >  - each piece should be EXACTLY 3 minutes and 14 seconds in length
> >  - file format is mp3 and ALL ID3 TAGS MUST BE CORRECTLY ENTERED or the
> > piece will be deleted from the server
> >
> >  deadline: Friday March 12 2010
> >
> >  server info: you must log into the project server using the SAME email
> > address you are sub'd to this list with
> >  if you experience difficulties gaining access then ask someone on the
> list
> > for assistance
> >
> >  ladies and gentlemen,
> >  happy calculations and computations
> >
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  microsound mailing list
> >  microsound at microsound.org
> >  http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >
>
>
> --
> gerardo figueroa rodr?guez
> gfr broadcasting system
> works in [constant} progress
> since 1988
> http://gfr.tumblr.com/
> http://gfrwurlitzer.tumblr.com/
> dios dispone
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>



-- 
KindRegards

TBG
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From williamsoderberg at comcast.net  Wed Feb  3 01:15:46 2010
From: williamsoderberg at comcast.net (williamsoderberg at comcast.net)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:15:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [microsound] tardy microacoustic submission
Message-ID: <384949555.2247441265177746253.JavaMail.root@sz0070a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>

will soderberg... minya, son of godzilla plays my guitar 
:feline string biting, floorboard groans, pots and pans : 
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From touch at klanggold.net  Wed Feb  3 02:46:56 2010
From: touch at klanggold.net (Klanggold)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:46:56 +0100
Subject: [microsound] microacoustic
In-Reply-To: <424ce301002020917x28551601jd58a48298ff8569a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B5F2F1E.9020009@anechoicmedia.com> <4B5F47DF.7020109@skynet.be>
	<a1c9bb861002012035p6f67c236i3b39b5cca8543ead@mail.gmail.com>
	<50E008FD-CF29-4853-A992-1B0AA8BF6029@klanggold.net>
	<424ce301002020917x28551601jd58a48298ff8569a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D77C10F9-8FE5-457A-AF32-A41933AD46A9@klanggold.net>

No i?m registerd, but still missing the activation code...
;) thanks for your help..

Andreas



Am 02.02.2010 um 18:17 schrieb Paulo Mouat:

> Did you register with the repository? You need to register with the same email account you use on the microsound list.
>  
> Let me know if you have any issues.
>  
> //p
> http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 1:05 AM, Klanggold <touch at klanggold.net> wrote:
> i?m  having trouble to upload the file since two days... i wrote many emails, but it seems, that noone receiving them.
> 
> Andreas
> 
> 
> Am 02.02.2010 um 05:35 schrieb Dariusz Roberte:
> 
>> I'm having trouble deciding on what sounds & structures are most relevant - & usable - for this project. Any suggestions?
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 5:51 AM, mik <mprims at skynet.be> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Kim Cascone schreef:
>> 
>> how is everyone coming with their pieces for this project?
>> 
>> 
>> i uploaded something yesterday (the first time since bufferFuct).
>> 
>> 
>> m
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> 
> ____________________________________
> KLANGGOLD
> label for experimental, avantgarde, improvised & electronic audioart
> 
> c/o andreas usenbenz
> www.klanggold.net
> 
> 
> be a friend:
> www.myspace.com/klanggold
> www.twitter.com/klanggold
> 
> news:
> 
> kg007/ Morgan Craft - Morgan Kraft (digital)
> (file under: downbeat, improvisation, ambient, noise)
> 
> 
> still hot:
> 
> kg006/ Nobile- Mariella (digital + special limited cd version)
> (file under: experimental, piano music, ambient, improvisation)
> 
> kg005/ Viirus- The Virus Album 
> (file under: experimental, Jazz, free jazz, soundscapes)
> 
> kg004/ Jens D?ring & Ulrich Troyer- 20050429 
> (file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)
> 
> kg003/ 3Banditos- Sympathy For The Donkey 
> (file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)
> 
> kg002/ Jair Rohm Parker Wells- AMDG
> (file under: experimental, noise, jazz)
> 
> kg001/ Nobile- Pelktron 
> (file under: experimental, ambient, noise, new music)
> 
> 
> forthcoming releases:
> 
> haruki - snowed in food shelter (kg008)
> 
> jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - salat (kg009)
> 
> jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - wurst (kg010)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

____________________________________
KLANGGOLD
label for experimental, avantgarde, improvised & electronic audioart

c/o andreas usenbenz
Eichenhang 73
89075 ulm

www.klanggold.net

be a friend:
www.myspace.com/klanggold
www.twitter.com/klanggold

news:

kg007/ Morgan Craft - Morgan Kraft (digital)
(file under: downbeat, improvisation, ambient, noise)


still hot:

kg006/ Nobile- Mariella (digital + special limited cd version)
(file under: experimental, piano music, ambient, improvisation)

kg005/ Viirus- The Virus Album 
(file under: experimental, Jazz, free jazz, soundscapes)

kg004/ Jens D?ring & Ulrich Troyer- 20050429 
(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)

kg003/ 3Banditos- Sympathy For The Donkey 
(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)

kg002/ Jair Rohm Parker Wells- AMDG
(file under: experimental, noise, jazz)

kg001/ Nobile- Pelktron 
(file under: experimental, ambient, noise, new music)


forthcoming releases:

jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - salat (kg008)

jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - wurst (kg009)

haruki - snowed in food shelter (kg010)





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From touch at klanggold.net  Wed Feb  3 03:22:44 2010
From: touch at klanggold.net (Klanggold)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:22:44 +0100
Subject: [microsound] resend: ***microacoustic music project***
In-Reply-To: <4B648C19.6010809@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B648C19.6010809@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <B35C1D78-FA4D-4B57-A6F2-3FC959B2257E@klanggold.net>

I uploaded my track (phantomspeisung) today, because i had very extensive problem with registering.
now it works, track is uploaded, hope you all is well.

what will happen with this music pieces ?

take care Andreas



Am 30.01.2010 um 20:44 schrieb Kim Cascone:

> ============================
> ***MONDAY IS THE DEADLINE***
> ============================
> 
> 
> .microsound community project: microacoustic music
> 
> what is .microsound? what will it sound like in 10 years time?
> is it purely music made via digital means or can it shape shift into
> using acoustic musical instruments?
> what is the sound of microacoustic music?
> let's find out
> each microsound member gets a chance to describe what microacoustic
> music sounds like to them
> 
> 
> GUIDELINES:
> 
> - length: all works must be 2 minutes maximum
> 
> - deadline: February 1 2010
> 
> - mp3 files: filenames use only ALPHANUMERICS; i.e. NO spaces
> (underbars_and-hyphens-are-OK), stereo, encoded at 192 - 320kbps and
> have ID3 tags!! please make sure they have ID3 tags!
> 
> content: all sound sources are acoustic musical instruments
> with NO processing other than the following:
> - mixing/layering
> - editing (cut 'n paste)
> - slowing down or speeding up
> - filtering/EQ
> 
> instruments can be detuned, woodwinds played as percussion, stick a sax
> mouthpiece on a bassoon, contact mic'd, deconstructed, use extended
> techniques, destroyed or played 'properly' then (de)composed in editing
> 
> files should be placed here:
> 
> http://www.microsound.org/repository/
> 
> there is also a link on the microsound.org front page
> 
> ***you MUST be sub'd to the list before you are allowed to upload files
> 
> the server checks for you against the list of sub'ers
> 
> if you are having trouble write to Paulo or John and ask them to update
> the list
> (has to be done by hand IIRC)
> 
> ___remember to name and tag your files properly or they will be taken
> down___
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

____________________________________
KLANGGOLD
label for experimental, avantgarde, improvised & electronic audioart

c/o andreas usenbenz
Eichenhang 73
89075 ulm

www.klanggold.net

be a friend:
www.myspace.com/klanggold
www.twitter.com/klanggold

news:

kg007/ Morgan Craft - Morgan Kraft (digital)
(file under: downbeat, improvisation, ambient, noise)


still hot:

kg006/ Nobile- Mariella (digital + special limited cd version)
(file under: experimental, piano music, ambient, improvisation)

kg005/ Viirus- The Virus Album 
(file under: experimental, Jazz, free jazz, soundscapes)

kg004/ Jens D?ring & Ulrich Troyer- 20050429 
(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)

kg003/ 3Banditos- Sympathy For The Donkey 
(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)

kg002/ Jair Rohm Parker Wells- AMDG
(file under: experimental, noise, jazz)

kg001/ Nobile- Pelktron 
(file under: experimental, ambient, noise, new music)


forthcoming releases:

jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - salat (kg008)

jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - wurst (kg009)

haruki - snowed in food shelter (kg010)





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From lsutton at libero.it  Wed Feb  3 04:36:07 2010
From: lsutton at libero.it (Lorenzo)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 10:36:07 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day 2010
In-Reply-To: <fcb9e70e1002021826g77f6742ew9994652d6daf769f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B6890DB.2080702@anechoicmedia.com>	<cde7886c1002021417w1ded87a1od699444f0cc3fbc1@mail.gmail.com>
	<fcb9e70e1002021826g77f6742ew9994652d6daf769f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B694387.8090806@libero.it>

Nice one!
But maybe the rules should be amended as follows

- file format is mp*3.1415926535* ...

Ok sorry.. back to work :)

Lorenzo

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From kim at anechoicmedia.com  Thu Feb  4 16:51:07 2010
From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone)
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 2010 13:51:07 -0800
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed
Message-ID: <4B6B414B.1070905@anechoicmedia.com>

anyone want to take a shot at designing the graphics for the Pi Day 
project page?

From eduardoacosta at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:09:57 2010
From: eduardoacosta at gmail.com (Eduardo Acosta)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 23:09:57 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed
In-Reply-To: <4B6B414B.1070905@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B6B414B.1070905@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <9d0ec1d61002041409o7e25bd15r1c700b347d609aa1@mail.gmail.com>

Hello!

I can try with that, can you give a list  with the material needed?
Greetings,


Eduardo
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From technohead3d at googlemail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:19:38 2010
From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:19:38 +0000
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed
In-Reply-To: <4B6B414B.1070905@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B6B414B.1070905@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <5badef3b1002041419p721c54b7vd1dbe8416b3df607@mail.gmail.com>

 Would .jpgs e-mailed over be sufficient at all?
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From paulo.mouat at gmail.com  Thu Feb  4 18:09:57 2010
From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 18:09:57 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed
In-Reply-To: <5badef3b1002041419p721c54b7vd1dbe8416b3df607@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4B6B414B.1070905@anechoicmedia.com>
	<5badef3b1002041419p721c54b7vd1dbe8416b3df607@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <424ce301002041509s10a941b8uf0de78ea153ae020@mail.gmail.com>

No. Please upload them to the repository into a folder called info under the
project's own folder. If you follow the naming convention used for the other
projects (see e.g. bufferFuct), the files will be automatically used as
header, footer and background of the project page. Other images can be added
too if you feel so inclined.

//p
http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0

On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Adam Davis <technohead3d at googlemail.com>wrote:

> Would .jpgs e-mailed over be sufficient at all?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
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From technohead3d at googlemail.com  Thu Feb  4 17:19:38 2010
From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:19:38 +0000
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed
In-Reply-To: <4B6B414B.1070905@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B6B414B.1070905@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <5badef3b1002041419p721c54b7vd1dbe8416b3df607@mail.gmail.com>

 Would .jpgs e-mailed over be sufficient at all?
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From macdara at email.com  Tue Feb  9 04:52:23 2010
From: macdara at email.com (macdara at email.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:52:23 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
Message-ID: <8CC7784B6455403-1884-2901@web-mmc-m03.sysops.aol.com>




Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs I am contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was thinking of, anyone care to disagree? 

Le Mac
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From touch at klanggold.net  Tue Feb  9 05:11:36 2010
From: touch at klanggold.net (Klanggold)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:11:36 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
In-Reply-To: <8CC7784B6455403-1884-2901@web-mmc-m03.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC7784B6455403-1884-2901@web-mmc-m03.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <D91AE8B6-DE3D-4810-BF73-EA0440F54035@klanggold.net>

it?s a good one ;)

Andreas
Am 09.02.2010 um 10:52 schrieb macdara at email.com:

> 
> 
> Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs I am contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was thinking of, anyone care to disagree?
>  
> Le Mac
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

____________________________________
KLANGGOLD
label for experimental, avantgarde, improvised & electronic audioart

c/o andreas usenbenz
Eichenhang 73
89075 ulm

www.klanggold.net

be a friend:
www.myspace.com/klanggold
www.twitter.com/klanggold

news:

kg007/ Morgan Craft - Morgan Kraft (digital)
(file under: experimental, Avantgarde Jazz, Improvisation)


still hot:

kg006/ Nobile- Mariella (digital + special limited cd version)
(file under: experimental, piano music, ambient, improvisation)

kg005/ Viirus- The Virus Album 
(file under: experimental, Jazz, free jazz, soundscapes)

kg004/ Jens D?ring & Ulrich Troyer- 20050429 
(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)

kg003/ 3Banditos- Sympathy For The Donkey 
(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)

kg002/ Jair Rohm Parker Wells- AMDG
(file under: experimental, noise, jazz)

kg001/ Nobile- Pelktron 
(file under: experimental, ambient, noise, new music)


forthcoming releases:

jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - salat (kg008)

jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - wurst (kg009)

haruki - snowed in food shelter (kg010)






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From erik at thuisbasis.net  Tue Feb  9 06:09:49 2010
From: erik at thuisbasis.net (Erik Maes)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:09:49 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
In-Reply-To: <8CC7784B6455403-1884-2901@web-mmc-m03.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC7784B6455403-1884-2901@web-mmc-m03.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B71427D.6000904@thuisbasis.net>

I'm a big fan of Sony's MDR-7506.

macdara at email.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs I am
> contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was thinking
> of, anyone care to disagree?
>  
> Le Mac
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From lsutton at libero.it  Tue Feb  9 07:16:14 2010
From: lsutton at libero.it (Lorenzo)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:16:14 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
In-Reply-To: <4B71427D.6000904@thuisbasis.net>
References: <8CC7784B6455403-1884-2901@web-mmc-m03.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B71427D.6000904@thuisbasis.net>
Message-ID: <4B71520E.2030208@libero.it>

I'm a big fan of Sony's MDR-7506.
> macdara at email.com wrote:
>    
>>
>> Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs I am
>> contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was thinking
>> of, anyone care to disagree?
>>      
Is it for 'studio' or 'everyday' use (like bus etc)?

From sunep at modular.dk  Tue Feb  9 07:36:23 2010
From: sunep at modular.dk (Sune Petersen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:36:23 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
In-Reply-To: <4B71520E.2030208@libero.it>
References: <8CC7784B6455403-1884-2901@web-mmc-m03.sysops.aol.com> 
	<4B71427D.6000904@thuisbasis.net> <4B71520E.2030208@libero.it>
Message-ID: <9b4e2de21002090436x54090a3ao9ee21632b213e75c@mail.gmail.com>

I am using HD25, I like them, the sound is neutral but in high end
terms it lacks a bit of the transparency and clarity that less
ENG-style headphones can give. They are still among the best sound
quality wise when compared to similar offerings from other
manufacturers in my opinion.

My main annoyance with them are that I constantly wear out the soft
pads and they are pretty expensive to replace, also the connectors to
each ear cup are at risk of getting bad connections so you need to
adjust them for them to work.

but then again I treat my equipment relatively rough (my laptops last
18month on average, the they stop working)

I really like them and has gotten to know the sound of them and might
even go some HD25 when I feel I need to upgrade. I will probably then
try to find some sort of protective casing that will still allow for
them to be easily transported.

So I would say it definitely depend on how you will use them, if it is
strictly for studio use and not on the road, I would probably go for
something like Beyer Dynamics DT770, I prefer closed headphones to
avoid spilling too much sound to my surroundings

Sune


-

Sune Petersen
galakse.dk



On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Lorenzo <lsutton at libero.it> wrote:
> MDR-7506

From ted.pallas at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 07:40:20 2010
From: ted.pallas at gmail.com (Ted Pallas)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:40:20 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
In-Reply-To: <4B71520E.2030208@libero.it>
References: <8CC7784B6455403-1884-2901@web-mmc-m03.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B71427D.6000904@thuisbasis.net> <4B71520E.2030208@libero.it>
Message-ID: <CB5F4A35-8670-4C94-BA2D-FC6C07DF3BEF@gmail.com>

I'm happy with my HD-25's, though I find them a bit much for every day  
use.

Ted Pallas
Live Media Design
Founder, ://grove.nyc
ted at grovenyc.net
cell - 516 286 9661

On Feb 9, 2010, at 7:16 AM, Lorenzo <lsutton at libero.it> wrote:

> I'm a big fan of Sony's MDR-7506.
>> macdara at email.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear- 
>>> muffs I am
>>> contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was  
>>> thinking
>>> of, anyone care to disagree?
>>>
> Is it for 'studio' or 'everyday' use (like bus etc)?
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

From sunep at modular.dk  Tue Feb  9 07:49:39 2010
From: sunep at modular.dk (Sune Petersen)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:49:39 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
In-Reply-To: <CB5F4A35-8670-4C94-BA2D-FC6C07DF3BEF@gmail.com>
References: <8CC7784B6455403-1884-2901@web-mmc-m03.sysops.aol.com> 
	<4B71427D.6000904@thuisbasis.net> <4B71520E.2030208@libero.it> 
	<CB5F4A35-8670-4C94-BA2D-FC6C07DF3BEF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9b4e2de21002090449l6b6d26abr38c387ea79178e7a@mail.gmail.com>

yes, for extended use, they are not as comfortable as many other
headphones. the pads press onto the ears instead of around the ears...
They sit pretty tight though and stay on once they are there.

-

Sune Petersen
galakse.dk



On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Ted Pallas <ted.pallas at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm happy with my HD-25's, though I find them a bit much for every day use.
>
> Ted Pallas
> Live Media Design
> Founder, ://grove.nyc
> ted at grovenyc.net
> cell - 516 286 9661
>
> On Feb 9, 2010, at 7:16 AM, Lorenzo <lsutton at libero.it> wrote:
>
>> I'm a big fan of Sony's MDR-7506.
>>>
>>> macdara at email.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs I am
>>>> contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was thinking
>>>> of, anyone care to disagree?
>>>>
>> Is it for 'studio' or 'everyday' use (like bus etc)?
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>

From touch at klanggold.net  Tue Feb  9 08:39:03 2010
From: touch at klanggold.net (Klanggold)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:39:03 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
In-Reply-To: <9b4e2de21002090436x54090a3ao9ee21632b213e75c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CC7784B6455403-1884-2901@web-mmc-m03.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B71427D.6000904@thuisbasis.net> <4B71520E.2030208@libero.it>
	<9b4e2de21002090436x54090a3ao9ee21632b213e75c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D8EE21D-A375-4A1C-B8E5-984DB1CDEF4C@klanggold.net>

i love my AKG K 701. They have a big frequency range 10 - 39000 Hz and are really linear... good for music production. But they?re a bit expensive.
HD 25 are not a comfortable as the akg?s are. they are big and the?re not pressing onto the ears.... 
they are open (not closed like the hd 25) and you don?t feel them .... very nice... lightweight 235g ....feels like you?re wearing monitoring speakers...
but they?re nothing for outside.... only for work into the studio.

Andreas



Am 09.02.2010 um 13:36 schrieb Sune Petersen:

> I am using HD25, I like them, the sound is neutral but in high end
> terms it lacks a bit of the transparency and clarity that less
> ENG-style headphones can give. They are still among the best sound
> quality wise when compared to similar offerings from other
> manufacturers in my opinion.
> 
> My main annoyance with them are that I constantly wear out the soft
> pads and they are pretty expensive to replace, also the connectors to
> each ear cup are at risk of getting bad connections so you need to
> adjust them for them to work.
> 
> but then again I treat my equipment relatively rough (my laptops last
> 18month on average, the they stop working)
> 
> I really like them and has gotten to know the sound of them and might
> even go some HD25 when I feel I need to upgrade. I will probably then
> try to find some sort of protective casing that will still allow for
> them to be easily transported.
> 
> So I would say it definitely depend on how you will use them, if it is
> strictly for studio use and not on the road, I would probably go for
> something like Beyer Dynamics DT770, I prefer closed headphones to
> avoid spilling too much sound to my surroundings
> 
> Sune
> 
> 
> -
> 
> Sune Petersen
> galakse.dk
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Lorenzo <lsutton at libero.it> wrote:
>> MDR-7506
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

____________________________________
KLANGGOLD
label for experimental, avantgarde, improvised & electronic audioart

c/o andreas usenbenz
Eichenhang 73
89075 ulm

www.klanggold.net

be a friend:
www.myspace.com/klanggold
www.twitter.com/klanggold

news:

kg007/ Morgan Craft - Morgan Kraft (digital)
(file under: experimental, Avantgarde Jazz, Improvisation)


still hot:

kg006/ Nobile- Mariella (digital + special limited cd version)
(file under: experimental, piano music, ambient, improvisation)

kg005/ Viirus- The Virus Album 
(file under: experimental, Jazz, free jazz, soundscapes)

kg004/ Jens D?ring & Ulrich Troyer- 20050429 
(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)

kg003/ 3Banditos- Sympathy For The Donkey 
(file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)

kg002/ Jair Rohm Parker Wells- AMDG
(file under: experimental, noise, jazz)

kg001/ Nobile- Pelktron 
(file under: experimental, ambient, noise, new music)


forthcoming releases:

jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - salat (kg008)

jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - wurst (kg009)

haruki - snowed in food shelter (kg010)






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From kim at anechoicmedia.com  Tue Feb  9 11:10:02 2010
From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:10:02 -0800
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
Message-ID: <4B7188DA.9070807@anechoicmedia.com>

Sony MDR7506

From brian.tester at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 12:01:40 2010
From: brian.tester at gmail.com (brian t)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:01:40 -0800
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
Message-ID: <434248d81002090901o4d78c945id1fbc2060baebdba@mail.gmail.com>

I would recommend giving the Grado SR80s a shot.  Pretty transparent across
the spectrum, without the bass boost of the Sony MDR7506s.  They are an open
design, so not so good for tracking, but this makes the bass frequencies
sound a lot more natural.

http://www.gradolabs.com/frameset_main.htm

-B.

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:38 AM, <microsound-request at or8.net> wrote:

> Send microsound mailing list submissions to
>        microsound at or8.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        microsound-request at or8.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        microsound-owner at or8.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of microsound digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Pi Day graphics needed (Adam Davis)
>   2. Headphones (macdara at email.com)
>   3. Re: Headphones (Klanggold)
>   4. Re: Headphones (Erik Maes)
>   5. Re: Headphones (Lorenzo)
>   6. Re: Headphones (Sune Petersen)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Adam Davis <technohead3d at googlemail.com>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:19:38 +0000
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed
> Would .jpgs e-mailed over be sufficient at all?
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: macdara at email.com
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:52:23 -0500
> Subject: [microsound] Headphones
>
>
> Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs I am
> contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was thinking of,
> anyone care to disagree?
>
> Le Mac
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Klanggold <touch at klanggold.net>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:11:36 +0100
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Headphones
> it?s a good one ;)
>
> Andreas
> Am 09.02.2010 um 10:52 schrieb macdara at email.com:
>
>
>
> Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs I am
> contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was thinking of,
> anyone care to disagree?
>
> Le Mac
>  _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
> ____________________________________
> KLANGGOLD
> label for experimental, avantgarde, improvised & electronic audioart
>
> c/o andreas usenbenz
> Eichenhang 73
> 89075 ulm
> *
> *
> *www.klanggold.ne*t
>
> be a friend:
> www.myspace.com/klanggold
> www.twitter.com/klanggold
>
> *news:*
>
> kg007/ Morgan Craft - Morgan Kraft (digital)
> (file under: experimental, Avantgarde Jazz, Improvisation)
>
>
> *still hot:*
>
> kg006/ Nobile- Mariella (digital + special limited cd version)
> (file under: experimental, piano music, ambient, improvisation)
>
> kg005/ Viirus- The Virus Album
> (file under: experimental, Jazz, free jazz, soundscapes)
>
> kg004/ Jens D?ring & Ulrich Troyer- 20050429
> (file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)
>
> kg003/ 3Banditos- Sympathy For The Donkey
> (file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)
>
> kg002/ Jair Rohm Parker Wells- AMDG
> (file under: experimental, noise, jazz)
>
> kg001/ Nobile- Pelktron
> (file under: experimental, ambient, noise, new music)
>
>
> *forthcoming releases:*
>
> jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - salat (kg008)
>
> jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - wurst (kg009)
>
> haruki - snowed in food shelter (kg010)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Erik Maes <erik at thuisbasis.net>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:09:49 +0100
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Headphones
> I'm a big fan of Sony's MDR-7506.
>
> macdara at email.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs I am
> > contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was thinking
> > of, anyone care to disagree?
> >
> > Le Mac
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > microsound mailing list
> > microsound at microsound.org
> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Lorenzo <lsutton at libero.it>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:16:14 +0100
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Headphones
> I'm a big fan of Sony's MDR-7506.
>
>> macdara at email.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs I am
>>> contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was thinking
>>> of, anyone care to disagree?
>>>
>>>
>> Is it for 'studio' or 'everyday' use (like bus etc)?
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Sune Petersen <sunep at modular.dk>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:36:23 +0100
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Headphones
> I am using HD25, I like them, the sound is neutral but in high end
> terms it lacks a bit of the transparency and clarity that less
> ENG-style headphones can give. They are still among the best sound
> quality wise when compared to similar offerings from other
> manufacturers in my opinion.
>
> My main annoyance with them are that I constantly wear out the soft
> pads and they are pretty expensive to replace, also the connectors to
> each ear cup are at risk of getting bad connections so you need to
> adjust them for them to work.
>
> but then again I treat my equipment relatively rough (my laptops last
> 18month on average, the they stop working)
>
> I really like them and has gotten to know the sound of them and might
> even go some HD25 when I feel I need to upgrade. I will probably then
> try to find some sort of protective casing that will still allow for
> them to be easily transported.
>
> So I would say it definitely depend on how you will use them, if it is
> strictly for studio use and not on the road, I would probably go for
> something like Beyer Dynamics DT770, I prefer closed headphones to
> avoid spilling too much sound to my surroundings
>
> Sune
>
>
> -
>
> Sune Petersen
> galakse.dk
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Lorenzo <lsutton at libero.it> wrote:
> > MDR-7506
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
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From macdara at email.com  Tue Feb  9 11:37:37 2010
From: macdara at email.com (macdara at email.com)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:37:37 -0500
Subject: [microsound] ode to headphones
Message-ID: <8CC77BD5319237D-1E30-D03@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com>


Very interesting responses, it's interesting how close we get to our gear, to live in a world without headphones!!! Sometimes I look around on the train and loathe all the ways people plug up their ears, but I've lost a serious chunk without hanging em round my neck... suppose it's all about balance...and stereo too.

Mac



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From grahammiller at sympatico.ca  Tue Feb  9 13:13:51 2010
From: grahammiller at sympatico.ca (Graham Miller)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:13:51 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
In-Reply-To: <434248d81002090901o4d78c945id1fbc2060baebdba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <434248d81002090901o4d78c945id1fbc2060baebdba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9BDFC428-DF1D-4711-A3A8-8DC521D917BE@sympatico.ca>

audio-technica M50s.

i work occasionally at moogaudio.com and have had the opportunity to  
try and A/B a wide variety of headphones, both expensive and  
inexpensive... i'd say for the money i like the M50s the best,  
although i feel that the AKGs are generally more comfortable over  
long periods of time. that said, for less money i'd recommend the  
sony 7506s. they are hugely popular and great value.

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/headphones/0edf909675b1be4d/index.html

graham

From picnet at urlme.net  Tue Feb  9 13:59:17 2010
From: picnet at urlme.net (Mike)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 20:59:17 +0200
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
In-Reply-To: <9b4e2de21002090436x54090a3ao9ee21632b213e75c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CC7784B6455403-1884-2901@web-mmc-m03.sysops.aol.com>
	<4B71427D.6000904@thuisbasis.net> <4B71520E.2030208@libero.it>
	<9b4e2de21002090436x54090a3ao9ee21632b213e75c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5F857ABF-9316-4712-A4CF-802DCB855664@urlme.net>

Sennhesier HD280 Pro 64 Ohm I use for everything if noise is a problem.
Open design HD600's for binaural monitoring, and a variety of in-ear phones.

The Beyer DT770 Pro pair just didnt give the same image as the HD280's or HD600's
sounded as if the left and right were from different headphones entirely - not sure why
maybe they are not matched speaker elements. 

-M
On Feb 9, 2010, at 2:36 PM, Sune Petersen wrote:

> I am using HD25, I like them, the sound is neutral but in high end
> terms it lacks a bit of the transparency and clarity that less
> ENG-style headphones can give. They are still among the best sound
> quality wise when compared to similar offerings from other
> manufacturers in my opinion.
> 
> My main annoyance with them are that I constantly wear out the soft
> pads and they are pretty expensive to replace, also the connectors to
> each ear cup are at risk of getting bad connections so you need to
> adjust them for them to work.
> 
> but then again I treat my equipment relatively rough (my laptops last
> 18month on average, the they stop working)
> 
> I really like them and has gotten to know the sound of them and might
> even go some HD25 when I feel I need to upgrade. I will probably then
> try to find some sort of protective casing that will still allow for
> them to be easily transported.
> 
> So I would say it definitely depend on how you will use them, if it is
> strictly for studio use and not on the road, I would probably go for
> something like Beyer Dynamics DT770, I prefer closed headphones to
> avoid spilling too much sound to my surroundings
> 
> Sune
> 
> 
> -
> 
> Sune Petersen
> galakse.dk
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Lorenzo <lsutton at libero.it> wrote:
>> MDR-7506
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From sobrilliant at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 14:13:13 2010
From: sobrilliant at gmail.com (Kurt Kotheimer)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 14:13:13 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
In-Reply-To: <434248d81002090901o4d78c945id1fbc2060baebdba@mail.gmail.com>
References: <434248d81002090901o4d78c945id1fbc2060baebdba@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EB8B94B5-266E-4F41-8420-6851CFF9A658@gmail.com>

I second the Grado SR-80's.  Mine have stood up to ~6 years of  
constant use.  I got them after trying some of the top-of-the-line  
Grados.  I like my Westone UM1's for being mobile -- www.westone.com/ .
Later.
........................................................
http://www.kurtKotheimer.com
.......................................................






On Feb 9, 2010, at 12:01 PM, brian t wrote:

> I would recommend giving the Grado SR80s a shot.  Pretty transparent  
> across the spectrum, without the bass boost of the Sony MDR7506s.   
> They are an open design, so not so good for tracking, but this makes  
> the bass frequencies sound a lot more natural.
>
> http://www.gradolabs.com/frameset_main.htm
>
> -B.
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:38 AM, <microsound-request at or8.net> wrote:
> Send microsound mailing list submissions to
>        microsound at or8.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        microsound-request at or8.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        microsound-owner at or8.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of microsound digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Pi Day graphics needed (Adam Davis)
>   2. Headphones (macdara at email.com)
>   3. Re: Headphones (Klanggold)
>   4. Re: Headphones (Erik Maes)
>   5. Re: Headphones (Lorenzo)
>   6. Re: Headphones (Sune Petersen)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Adam Davis <technohead3d at googlemail.com>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2010 22:19:38 +0000
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed
> Would .jpgs e-mailed over be sufficient at all?
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: macdara at email.com
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:52:23 -0500
> Subject: [microsound] Headphones
>
>
> Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs  
> I am contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was  
> thinking of, anyone care to disagree?
>
> Le Mac
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Klanggold <touch at klanggold.net>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 11:11:36 +0100
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Headphones
> it?s a good one ;)
>
> Andreas
> Am 09.02.2010 um 10:52 schrieb macdara at email.com:
>
>>
>>
>> Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs  
>> I am contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was  
>> thinking of, anyone care to disagree?
>>
>> Le Mac
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> ____________________________________
> KLANGGOLD
> label for experimental, avantgarde, improvised & electronic audioart
>
> c/o andreas usenbenz
> Eichenhang 73
> 89075 ulm
>
> www.klanggold.net
>
> be a friend:
> www.myspace.com/klanggold
> www.twitter.com/klanggold
>
> news:
>
> kg007/ Morgan Craft - Morgan Kraft (digital)
> (file under: experimental, Avantgarde Jazz, Improvisation)
>
>
> still hot:
>
> kg006/ Nobile- Mariella (digital + special limited cd version)
> (file under: experimental, piano music, ambient, improvisation)
>
> kg005/ Viirus- The Virus Album
> (file under: experimental, Jazz, free jazz, soundscapes)
>
> kg004/ Jens D?ring & Ulrich Troyer- 20050429
> (file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)
>
> kg003/ 3Banditos- Sympathy For The Donkey
> (file under: experimental, noise, improvisation)
>
> kg002/ Jair Rohm Parker Wells- AMDG
> (file under: experimental, noise, jazz)
>
> kg001/ Nobile- Pelktron
> (file under: experimental, ambient, noise, new music)
>
>
> forthcoming releases:
>
> jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - salat (kg008)
>
> jens d?ring & andreas usenbenz - wurst (kg009)
>
> haruki - snowed in food shelter (kg010)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Erik Maes <erik at thuisbasis.net>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:09:49 +0100
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Headphones
> I'm a big fan of Sony's MDR-7506.
>
> macdara at email.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear- 
> muffs I am
> > contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was  
> thinking
> > of, anyone care to disagree?
> >
> > Le Mac
> >
> >
> >  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > microsound mailing list
> > microsound at microsound.org
> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Lorenzo <lsutton at libero.it>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 13:16:14 +0100
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Headphones
> I'm a big fan of Sony's MDR-7506.
> macdara at email.com wrote:
>
>
> Alas seeing as the left ear no longer functions on my old ear-muffs  
> I am
> contemplating refurbishment. Sennheiser HD-25 was what I was thinking
> of, anyone care to disagree?
>
> Is it for 'studio' or 'everyday' use (like bus etc)?
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Sune Petersen <sunep at modular.dk>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 13:36:23 +0100
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Headphones
> I am using HD25, I like them, the sound is neutral but in high end
> terms it lacks a bit of the transparency and clarity that less
> ENG-style headphones can give. They are still among the best sound
> quality wise when compared to similar offerings from other
> manufacturers in my opinion.
>
> My main annoyance with them are that I constantly wear out the soft
> pads and they are pretty expensive to replace, also the connectors to
> each ear cup are at risk of getting bad connections so you need to
> adjust them for them to work.
>
> but then again I treat my equipment relatively rough (my laptops last
> 18month on average, the they stop working)
>
> I really like them and has gotten to know the sound of them and might
> even go some HD25 when I feel I need to upgrade. I will probably then
> try to find some sort of protective casing that will still allow for
> them to be easily transported.
>
> So I would say it definitely depend on how you will use them, if it is
> strictly for studio use and not on the road, I would probably go for
> something like Beyer Dynamics DT770, I prefer closed headphones to
> avoid spilling too much sound to my surroundings
>
> Sune
>
>
> -
>
> Sune Petersen
> galakse.dk
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Lorenzo <lsutton at libero.it> wrote:
> > MDR-7506
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

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From mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es  Tue Feb  9 14:22:47 2010
From: mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jaime_Mun=E1rriz_Ortiz?=)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:22:47 +0100
Subject: [microsound] headphones
Message-ID: <4B71B607.2070101@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es>

I bought Sony's MDR-V150, quite cheap, and I really like them, better 
than my old Senheisser and other Sonys and JVC. They are light, they 
don't cut or boost the low end. They have a thick cable, they are for 
studio use, but I even wear them on the streets, they are so comfortable.

From kim at anechoicmedia.com  Tue Feb  9 14:28:50 2010
From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:28:50 -0800
Subject: [microsound] Headphones
Message-ID: <4B71B772.5030708@anechoicmedia.com>

in my experience there are two different types of headphones:
- those best suited to recreational music listening
     - and -
- those best suited to professional audio work

they are different beasts
but make sure you try out a couple of different models if possible 
before buying

that said: you can't go wrong with a pair of 7506's for audio work


From robin at robinparmar.com  Tue Feb  9 19:09:30 2010
From: robin at robinparmar.com (Robin Parmar)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 16:09:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [microsound] headphones
Message-ID: <152282.3286.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

When I bought the Grado SR225 I was able to audition them against the entire line. They were distinctly better in frequency range and fidelity than the models below them, and I even preferred the tonal balance to the more expensive SR325. The top two units in the line-up were definitely the best, but very expensive.

However, no matter what you do they are not that comfortable and are also open-back so sound leaks like crazy. Nonetheless I used them for about a decade.

However, I would instead go for the AKG K271 MKII. The supra-aural design is comfortable and they come with a choice of ear pads: leatherette or velvet. The cable is detachable and the head band comfortable. The fact you get two ear pads, two cables and a screw-on cable tip in the package makes it very good value. Isolation is good, but I have wished them to be louder when driven from portable gear. (Sensitivity is 10 dB/V lower than their cheaper K141.)

Once cool feature: when you take the headphones off your head the audio is muted! This is great in studios to prevent spill and wonderful on location, as you can then hear your surroundings unhindered.

The frequency response is 16Hz-28KHz in case that means anything. The Grados sound "better", but unless you compare back to back you would never notice. FWIW, I no longer bother listening to the Grados.

The K271 are better value in the EU where pricing is ?145. They are $270 in the USA and do not get discounted like other brands (last time I checked). 

And you can say you have gear made in Austria. :-)

For day-to-day use I have the Sennheiser PX100 which are cheap, portable, comfortable and fold up small. Despite this they are quite robust and sound decent. All this for 50 bucks. Do not confuse them with any other low-end Sennheiser model as the rest are junk.

-- robin

From cathy at cathyvaneck.net  Wed Feb 10 02:19:17 2010
From: cathy at cathyvaneck.net (Cathy van Eck)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:19:17 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Master of Arts in Contemporary Arts Practice
Message-ID: <2E1BF2A6-18DC-4C4B-9F14-6F986D674C3D@cathyvaneck.net>

MA CAP Master of Arts in Contemporary Arts Practice at Bern University  
of the Arts
http://www.hkb.bfh.ch/macap.html?&L=2
Deadline for Application: 15 March 2010


?You write texts in unusual and innovative formats; you are an  
experienced musician with
many questions, which other musicians cannot answer; you work with  
images and keep
making new discoveries at their diffuse borders; you perform, but the  
space doesn?t always
play along; you know a lot, but like to listen; you sometimes look  
over the fence; you are
fast, but slow down in unexpected places?

The MA CAP offers you space to develop your qualities.
We put artistic thought and action first and provide opportunities to  
test and develop
your own models for individual and collaborative production.
Our degree program has a moderate size, but integrates a wide range of  
artistic personalities
with their specific skills, as well as providing international  
contacts, who help
you focus and fine-tune your work.

The MA-program usually takes 2 years and, aside from the further  
development of your
creative work, also allows insight in theoretical and media  
theoretical discourses.
We prefer work to be permeable and will gladly assist you in focusing  
your studies on
this quality, we will however give the same dedicated support to  
students working
within the clearly defined boundaries of specific artistic fields.

Specialists from all workshops, studios and production labs of the  
Bern University of
the Arts are available for assistance and support. Cooperation  
networks with other universities
are also available. We are convinced that the exchange with peers will  
greatly
contribute to the quality of your work and are happy to provide the  
necessary framework
for this to happen.
We welcome artistic interests in various fields as well as artists and  
authors focusing
on one discipline, with curiosity about other art forms.

To apply for this MA-program, a Bachelor?s degree in Fine Arts, Music  
(Music and Media
Art, Composition), Literature (Literary Writing), Performance Art or  
an equivalent
artistic education are required. If you have a diploma in a different  
field such as a translator?s
diploma or an artistic biography without diplomas, do not hesitate to  
contact us
for further information about applying to the MA CAP.

www.hkb.bfh.ch/macap.html
















From cathy at cathyvaneck.net  Wed Feb 10 03:20:57 2010
From: cathy at cathyvaneck.net (Cathy van Eck)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:20:57 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Sorry
Message-ID: <5800D7B6-71B7-4341-9D38-0BF56673B68E@cathyvaneck.net>

Sorry for sending the email about the Master CAP to this list, I did  
not know there is an extra list for announcements... won't happen again.


From vze26m98 at optonline.net  Sun Feb 14 18:28:35 2010
From: vze26m98 at optonline.net (Charles Turner)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:28:35 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Paris?
Message-ID: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>

Anyone have recommendations for reasonable hotels in Paris?

Amiti?s,

Charles


From macdara at email.com  Sun Feb 14 18:37:35 2010
From: macdara at email.com (macdara at email.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:37:35 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Paris?
In-Reply-To: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>
References: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <8CC7BE5D20FA61F-2798-8FD0@web-mmc-d07.sysops.aol.com>


It was about 4 years ago but I liked this place. Hotel Formule 1 Montreuil, quite cheap good room, breakfast, a little bit off the main cool bits, if I remember 5 or 10 minutes to local metro but had some nice little cafes near it. Nothing fancy, good and basic.

Macdara

http://www.accorhotels.com/gb/hotel-3488-formule-1-hotelf1-paris-porte-de-montreuil/index.shtml






-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Turner <vze26m98 at optonline.net>
To: microsound at microsound.org
Sent: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 11:28 pm
Subject: [microsound] Paris?


Anyone have recommendations for reasonable hotels in Paris? 
 
Amiti?s, 
 
Charles 
 
_______________________________________________ 
microsound mailing list 
microsound at microsound.org 
http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound 

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From stevericksmusic at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 01:09:02 2010
From: stevericksmusic at gmail.com (Steven Ricks)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 23:09:02 -0700
Subject: [microsound] Paris?
In-Reply-To: <8CC7BE5D20FA61F-2798-8FD0@web-mmc-d07.sysops.aol.com>
References: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>
	<8CC7BE5D20FA61F-2798-8FD0@web-mmc-d07.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <7a0414351002142209x646afd85yf32c3ddb902677e7@mail.gmail.com>

the Etap and Ibis chains are pretty cheap and decent . . .

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:37 PM, <macdara at email.com> wrote:

> It was about 4 years ago but I liked this place. Hotel Formule 1 Montreuil,
> quite cheap good room, breakfast, a little bit off the main cool bits, if I
> remember 5 or 10 minutes to local metro but had some nice little cafes near
> it. Nothing fancy, good and basic.
>
> Macdara
>
>
> http://www.accorhotels.com/gb/hotel-3488-formule-1-hotelf1-paris-porte-de-montreuil/index.shtml
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Turner <vze26m98 at optonline.net>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Sent: Sun, Feb 14, 2010 11:28 pm
> Subject: [microsound] Paris?
>
> Anyone have recommendations for reasonable hotels in Paris?
>
> Amiti?s,
>
> Charles
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>


-- 
Steven Ricks
Composer
Associate Professor, BYU School of Music
(801) 422-6115
www.stevericks.com
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From maurice at mac.com  Mon Feb 15 10:19:43 2010
From: maurice at mac.com (Maurice Rickard)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 10:19:43 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Paris?
In-Reply-To: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>
References: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <82244388479938502433645012989218462092-Webmail@me.com>

I've not used it for Paris, but had really good results in NY with airbnb.com.  The general idea is people with a spare room or futon or couch or something can rent it out at a price of their choosing, so it's couch-surfing with a wide range of options, and money changes hands.  

On Sunday, February 14, 2010, at 06:28PM, "Charles Turner" <vze26m98 at optonline.net> wrote:
>Anyone have recommendations for reasonable hotels in Paris?

Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/ | http://onezeromusic.com/


From auralbeesty at btinternet.com  Mon Feb 15 15:31:25 2010
From: auralbeesty at btinternet.com (Chris Bullen)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:31:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [microsound] Paris?
In-Reply-To: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>
References: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>
Message-ID: <566730.75610.qm@web87005.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Depends what you want. We did a deal with Eurostar (of course I don't know where you are based) ?last April and stayed in Hotel Merryl, 7, Rue Pajol which is half a mile from Gare Du Nord and Gare De L'Est. Nearest Metro - La Chapelle (elevated section)?is 2 or 3 minutes walk from the hotel. Basic fairly scruffy hotel, breakfast was fairly good. It is in an asian area with one or two cheap exotic restaurants nearby.
Cheers ANTIHIPPI
Anyone have recommendations for reasonable hotels in Paris?

Amiti?s,

Charles

_______________________________________________
microsound mailing list
microsound at microsound.org
http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


________________________________

From: Charles Turner <vze26m98 at optonline.net>
To: microsound at microsound.org
Sent: Sunday, 14 February, 2010 23:28:35
Subject: [microsound] Paris?
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From nathalie.fougeras at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 15:39:03 2010
From: nathalie.fougeras at gmail.com (nathalie fougeras)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:39:03 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Paris?
In-Reply-To: <82244388479938502433645012989218462092-Webmail@me.com>
References: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>
	<82244388479938502433645012989218462092-Webmail@me.com>
Message-ID: <5df1da2b1002151239n6e66a145gadd3e3558cb41e03@mail.gmail.com>

Hey!

The more cheap of cheap - free - is to contact the Placard Erik Minkkinen he
have a big big space in Sevres where often artists can stay and sleep more
or less when they want:
erik minkkinen <em at pb2.de>
Erik is not all the time easy to join by mail so maybe you ll have to go in
the irc chat Le Placard..
but really is a good place, people are very engaged and nice also is very
closed the subway station and same time a big park not far :)

have a nice time in Paris and say hello at Erik from me
Hello Erik if you read here
best regards/ Nathalie

Nathalie Fougeras
artist, performer
http://nathaliefougeras.org




2010/2/15 Maurice Rickard <maurice at mac.com>

> I've not used it for Paris, but had really good results in NY with
> airbnb.com.  The general idea is people with a spare room or futon or
> couch or something can rent it out at a price of their choosing, so it's
> couch-surfing with a wide range of options, and money changes hands.
>
> On Sunday, February 14, 2010, at 06:28PM, "Charles Turner" <
> vze26m98 at optonline.net> wrote:
> >Anyone have recommendations for reasonable hotels in Paris?
>
> Maurice Rickard
> http://mauricerickard.com/ | http://onezeromusic.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
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From tmk at o-o-o-o.org  Mon Feb 15 15:54:40 2010
From: tmk at o-o-o-o.org (tomoko sauvage)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:54:40 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Paris?
In-Reply-To: <5df1da2b1002151239n6e66a145gadd3e3558cb41e03@mail.gmail.com>
References: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>
	<82244388479938502433645012989218462092-Webmail@me.com>
	<5df1da2b1002151239n6e66a145gadd3e3558cb41e03@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2F239484-FA2D-47E9-AA0D-9EDDD7C9BF32@o-o-o-o.org>

hmhm...

I'm a permanent member of La G?n?rale in S?vres so I know how cold it  
can be there in winter....
and I'm not sure if "people are very engaged and nice" to be honest....
except for super incredible Erik of course...

I'm Parisian so I don't know about hotels here, and apartments are  
all small like in Tokyo...

But some tips are

craiglist http://paris.fr.craigslist.org/sub/

and homelidays http://www.homelidays.com/


good luck !

tomoko

news _ flickr _ o-o-o-o.org _

On Feb 15, 2010, at 9:39 PM, nathalie fougeras wrote:

> Hey!
>
> The more cheap of cheap - free - is to contact the Placard Erik  
> Minkkinen he have a big big space in Sevres where often artists can  
> stay and sleep more or less when they want:
> erik minkkinen <em at pb2.de>
> Erik is not all the time easy to join by mail so maybe you ll have  
> to go in the irc chat Le Placard..
> but really is a good place, people are very engaged and nice also  
> is very closed the subway station and same time a big park not far :)
>
> have a nice time in Paris and say hello at Erik from me
> Hello Erik if you read here
> best regards/ Nathalie
>
> Nathalie Fougeras
> artist, performer
> http://nathaliefougeras.org
>
>
>
>
> 2010/2/15 Maurice Rickard <maurice at mac.com>
> I've not used it for Paris, but had really good results in NY with  
> airbnb.com.  The general idea is people with a spare room or futon  
> or couch or something can rent it out at a price of their choosing,  
> so it's couch-surfing with a wide range of options, and money  
> changes hands.
>
> On Sunday, February 14, 2010, at 06:28PM, "Charles Turner"  
> <vze26m98 at optonline.net> wrote:
> >Anyone have recommendations for reasonable hotels in Paris?
>
> Maurice Rickard
> http://mauricerickard.com/ | http://onezeromusic.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound












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From nathalie.fougeras at gmail.com  Mon Feb 15 16:23:59 2010
From: nathalie.fougeras at gmail.com (nathalie fougeras)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 22:23:59 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Paris?
In-Reply-To: <2F239484-FA2D-47E9-AA0D-9EDDD7C9BF32@o-o-o-o.org>
References: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>
	<82244388479938502433645012989218462092-Webmail@me.com>
	<5df1da2b1002151239n6e66a145gadd3e3558cb41e03@mail.gmail.com>
	<2F239484-FA2D-47E9-AA0D-9EDDD7C9BF32@o-o-o-o.org>
Message-ID: <5df1da2b1002151323u7c137190g17c8f9c52b6bf74c@mail.gmail.com>

Sure Erik is engaged! :)
the other have big teeth is rather famous ;) is all the time the other in a
way..hi hi
I m parisian myself so I know how sometimes these kind of "little" things
all the time against each other..  more or less for nothing... This is very
parisian style..ah ah.. wich I dont like much to be honest  ;)

but sure if its the big winter in Paris have some check via Craiglist (this
is not the most cheap rent but its rather ok) otherwise bring a good
sleeping bag I think Erik will precise you more if it s or not possible..

best/ Nathalie





2010/2/15 tomoko sauvage <tmk at o-o-o-o.org>

> hmhm...
>
> I'm a permanent member of La G?n?rale in S?vres so I know how cold it can
> be there in winter....
> and I'm not sure if "people are very engaged and nice" to be honest....
> except for super incredible Erik of course...
>
> I'm Parisian so I don't know about hotels here, and apartments are all
> small like in Tokyo...
>
> But some tips are
>
> craiglist http://paris.fr.craigslist.org/sub/
>
> and homelidays http://www.homelidays.com/
>
>
> good luck !
>
> tomoko
>
> news <http://newz.sblo.jp/>  <http://newz.sblo.jp/>_ flickr<http://www.flickr.com/photos/27169942 at N08/>
>  _ o-o-o-o.org _ <http://www.o-o-o-o.org/o/>
>
> On Feb 15, 2010, at 9:39 PM, nathalie fougeras wrote:
>
> Hey!
>
> The more cheap of cheap - free - is to contact the Placard Erik Minkkinen
> he have a big big space in Sevres where often artists can stay and sleep
> more or less when they want:
> erik minkkinen <em at pb2.de>
> Erik is not all the time easy to join by mail so maybe you ll have to go in
> the irc chat Le Placard..
> but really is a good place, people are very engaged and nice also is very
> closed the subway station and same time a big park not far :)
>
> have a nice time in Paris and say hello at Erik from me
> Hello Erik if you read here
> best regards/ Nathalie
>
> Nathalie Fougeras
> artist, performer
> http://nathaliefougeras.org
>
>
>
>
> 2010/2/15 Maurice Rickard <maurice at mac.com>
>
>> I've not used it for Paris, but had really good results in NY with
>> airbnb.com.  The general idea is people with a spare room or futon or
>> couch or something can rent it out at a price of their choosing, so it's
>> couch-surfing with a wide range of options, and money changes hands.
>>
>> On Sunday, February 14, 2010, at 06:28PM, "Charles Turner" <
>> vze26m98 at optonline.net> wrote:
>> >Anyone have recommendations for reasonable hotels in Paris?
>>
>> Maurice Rickard
>> http://mauricerickard.com/ | http://onezeromusic.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
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From technohead3d at googlemail.com  Tue Feb 16 06:24:48 2010
From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:24:48 +0000
Subject: [microsound] Piano Paradox
Message-ID: <5badef3b1002160324l40d8802cpa2c4783f2a73ab46@mail.gmail.com>

Written with the help of my brother Philip Davis, an astrophysicist, I
wanted to share this with you all here at .microsound. Constructive feedback
would be highly appreciated:

Imagine a piano. The length of one string of this piano, in whatever unit or
order of magnitude, is equal to the sum total of all the numbers that
comprise the aleph-0 set. Similarly, the next string is, in whatever
measurement, equal in length to the sum total of the figures that make the
aleph-1 set. The string after that, aleph-2, and so on. When the piano is
played, will the strings sound different pitches, if at all? How could the
tension of the strings be kept if the ends could not be reached? Will there
even be other ends for the keys, hammers and other mechanisms to situate? If
the piano has an infinite amount of keys with an infinite amount of
respective strings, are a highest starting note, aleph-0, even possible?
Could the rhythms of the recursions and infinite pro/regressions highlighted
by these questions be interpreted and played to on this piano!?

~

Bonus paradox:

If you limit yourself by being obsessed with a subject, a field, an interest
no matter how interdisciplinary, does this still apply if that interest is
infinity?

Infinite obsessions; an obsession with infinity. The infinities within the
coins, the mushrooms, the windmills...the pylons.

---------------

Best wishes,
Adam
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From macdara at email.com  Wed Feb 17 13:29:32 2010
From: macdara at email.com (macdara at email.com)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:29:32 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Piano Paradox
In-Reply-To: <5badef3b1002160324l40d8802cpa2c4783f2a73ab46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5badef3b1002160324l40d8802cpa2c4783f2a73ab46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CC7E164815E3AF-139C-5421@web-mmc-d07.sysops.aol.com>


"Who needs to think when your feet just go!"

Genius of Love 
Tom Tom Club

Perhaps this a parallel paradox.






-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Davis <technohead3d at googlemail.com>
To: microsound at microsound.org
Sent: Tue, Feb 16, 2010 11:24 am
Subject: [microsound] Piano Paradox


Written with the help of my brother Philip Davis, an astrophysicist, I wanted to share this with you all here at .microsound. Constructive feedback would be highly appreciated:
 
Imagine a piano. The length of one string of this piano, in whatever unit or order of magnitude, is equal to the sum total of all the numbers that comprise the aleph-0 set. Similarly, the next string is, in whatever measurement, equal in length to the sum total of the figures that make the aleph-1 set. The string after that, aleph-2, and so on. When the piano is played, will the strings sound different pitches, if at all? How could the tension of the strings be kept if the ends could not be reached? Will there even be other ends for the keys, hammers and other mechanisms to situate? If the piano has an infinite amount of keys with an infinite amount of respective strings, are a highest starting note, aleph-0, even possible? Could the rhythms of the recursions and infinite pro/regressions highlighted by these questions be interpreted and played to on this piano!? 

~ 

Bonus paradox: 

If you limit yourself by being obsessed with a subject, a field, an interest no matter how interdisciplinary, does this still apply if that interest is infinity? 

Infinite obsessions; an obsession with infinity. The infinities within the coins, the mushrooms, the windmills...the pylons. 
 
---------------
 
Best wishes,
Adam
 
 

 
 

_______________________________________________
icrosound mailing list
icrosound at microsound.org
ttp://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

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From ejschoster at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 14:25:59 2010
From: ejschoster at gmail.com (erik schoster)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 11:25:59 -0800
Subject: [microsound] Piano Paradox
In-Reply-To: <5badef3b1002160324l40d8802cpa2c4783f2a73ab46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5badef3b1002160324l40d8802cpa2c4783f2a73ab46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e29bbbb1002171125m3c86da78gd1e9203cd7eb066@mail.gmail.com>

This is a lovely morning mind-bender, thanks for this.  I'd be interested in
hearing some math and infinite number savvy folks here weigh in - my right
brain tendencies are enjoying the swim through some weird hypotheticals
though.  :-)

On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 3:24 AM, Adam Davis <technohead3d at googlemail.com>wrote:

> Written with the help of my brother Philip Davis, an astrophysicist, I
> wanted to share this with you all here at .microsound. Constructive feedback
> would be highly appreciated:
>
> Imagine a piano. The length of one string of this piano, in whatever unit
> or order of magnitude, is equal to the sum total of all the numbers that
> comprise the aleph-0 set. Similarly, the next string is, in whatever
> measurement, equal in length to the sum total of the figures that make the
> aleph-1 set. The string after that, aleph-2, and so on. When the piano is
> played, will the strings sound different pitches, if at all? How could the
> tension of the strings be kept if the ends could not be reached? Will there
> even be other ends for the keys, hammers and other mechanisms to situate? If
> the piano has an infinite amount of keys with an infinite amount of
> respective strings, are a highest starting note, aleph-0, even possible?
> Could the rhythms of the recursions and infinite pro/regressions highlighted
> by these questions be interpreted and played to on this piano!?
>
> ~
>
> Bonus paradox:
>
> If you limit yourself by being obsessed with a subject, a field, an
> interest no matter how interdisciplinary, does this still apply if that
> interest is infinity?
>
> Infinite obsessions; an obsession with infinity. The infinities within the
> coins, the mushrooms, the windmills...the pylons.
>
> ---------------
>
> Best wishes,
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
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From asalch at math.jhu.edu  Wed Feb 17 15:21:26 2010
From: asalch at math.jhu.edu (Andrew Salch)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 15:21:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [microsound] Piano Paradox
In-Reply-To: <5badef3b1002160324l40d8802cpa2c4783f2a73ab46@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5badef3b1002160324l40d8802cpa2c4783f2a73ab46@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.1002161017470.8036@chow.mat.jhu.edu>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010, Adam Davis wrote:
> Imagine a piano. The length of one string of this piano, in whatever unit or
> order of magnitude, is equal to the sum total of all the numbers that
> comprise the aleph-0 set.


This sum diverges (to infinity), which I guess is your point; this means 
that the wave in the string produced by striking the string will never 
reach the far end of the string, so the string has no harmonic frequency; 
the sound produced by striking the string is essentially the same as if 
the string is completely damped.


> Similarly, the next string is, in whatever
> measurement, equal in length to the sum total of the figures that make the
> aleph-1 set.


You would have to be more precise about what you mean about "figures that 
make the aleph-1 set" (do you mean countable ordinal numbers? How do you 
take the sum of all such things?) but in any case, even if such a thing 
were possible (which is extremely dubious), you would have another string 
whose sound, when struck, is essentially the same as that of a completely 
damped string.



> The string after that, aleph-2, and so on. When the piano is
> played, will the strings sound different pitches, if at all?


No, for the reasons stated above.


> How could the
> tension of the strings be kept if the ends could not be reached? Will there
> even be other ends for the keys, hammers and other mechanisms to situate? If
> the piano has an infinite amount of keys with an infinite amount of
> respective strings, are a highest starting note, aleph-0, even possible?


If this last question is supposed to ask whether there exists an infinite 
cardinal number less than aleph_0, the answer is no--it is not hard to 
prove (at least with the axiom of choice) that any infinite set admits an 
injection of the natural numbers into it, meaning that aleph_0 is less 
than or equal to every other infinite cardinal.


It might be more interesting to consider the following: suppose that we 
start playback of a digital signal whose sample rate is X hz. So 
immediately on beginning playback, the first sample is "played," i.e., 
some voltage is sent to the speakers; then, 1/X seconds after playback 
begins, the next sample is played, i.e., the voltage sent to the speakers 
is changed; then, 2/X seconds after playback begins, the next sample is 
played, and so on. In other words, when playing back a digital sample of 
sample rate X hz, the voltage sent to the speakers is changed N/X seconds 
after playback begins, where N is any nonnegative integer. So, even if the 
signal is left to continue playing forever, only a countable number of 
samples are ever played.

It is typical to think of an analog signal as one which is able to produce 
a change in the voltage sent to the speakers at any moment of time, or in 
other words, an analog signal may change voltage after r seconds, where r 
is any real number. (Representing the set of all moments in time as the 
continuum, or the real numbers, is common, and probably about as justified 
as representing space as locally looking like a product of copies of the 
real numbers: it's a good model and works well for most purposes in 
physics and engineering but it is perhaps not how space, or time, really 
work, e.g. because of the Planck length in the case of space. But for most 
purposes it is probably appropriate to think of time as a continuum.)

Suppose that one is able to produce a signal which can change voltage at 
any moment in time that any digital signal can change voltage. In other 
words, this signal can change voltage r/s seconds after playback begins, 
where r and s are integers, and it can ONLY change voltage at moments in 
time which are r/s seconds after playback begins, where r and s are 
integers. (This means that our hypothetical signal can change voltage 1/2 
a second after playback begins, or 1.8 seconds after playback begins, for 
example, but it CANNOT change voltage exactly sqrt(2) seconds after 
playback begins, or exactly pi seconds after playback begins, etc.) Let's 
call this hypothetical signal the "perfect digital signal" since it is 
able to record at any sampling rate that any digital signal can record at. 
The set of numbers of the form r/s, where r and s are integers, are called 
the rational numbers.

The rational numbers are countable, i.e., their cardinality is that of the 
cardinal number aleph_0. However, the real numbers are uncountable--their 
cardinality is strictly greater than the cardinal number aleph_0--and this 
means that, if an analog signal is played for any nonzero length of time 
at all, the voltage is able to change an uncountable number of times; but 
no matter how long the perfect digital signal is allowed to play for, it 
can only change voltage a countable (even if infinite) number of times. In 
some sense this perfect digital signal still carries less information than 
an analog signal, even though both signals carry infinitely many samples.

It is extremely hard to believe that any human ear could hear this 
difference in information carried, i.e., that a human ear could hear the 
difference between the perfect digital signal and an analog signal. Maybe 
it is still an interesting idea. For what it's worth, the "generalized 
continuum hypothesis" (you can Google this if you want to read about it) 
is a statement about the possible cardinal numbers strictly between 
aleph_0 and the cardinality of the real numbers; if the GCH is true, then 
there are essentially no possible signals which carry more information 
than the perfect digital signal, but less information than an analog 
signal; but if the GCH is false then such signals do exist. The GCH was 
established in the 1960s to be undecidable in the standard axioms for 
mathematics; in other words, the standard logical axioms of mathematics 
are not enough to prove the existence OR the non-existence of signals 
carrying more information than the perfect digital signal but less 
information than an analog signal.

Maybe some of this is interesting to some people on this list? I hope so.

From kim at anechoicmedia.com  Wed Feb 17 16:39:17 2010
From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:39:17 -0800
Subject: [microsound] Piano Paradox
Message-ID: <4B7C6205.8000408@anechoicmedia.com>

a couple of thoughts about this experiment:

first of all, you need stationary end points thereby creating a string 
of finite length in order to produce a vibratory phenomenon of pitch

but let's say you somehow worked this out
then you would need infinite energy to set an infinite string into motion
which seems to me physically (and mathematically) problematic

and if the statement 'all parallel lines meet at infinity' (in 
non-Euclidean geometries) is true
then all the strings would be joined at some infinite point which could 
behave as a bridge

each string would have to have a starting point -- but IIRC I don't 
think this exists on an infinite line which I believe extends to 
infinity in both directions (?)

and if the infinite points at both ends of the string are the same point 
of infinity then I would guess the string is actually a circle?

I've read some Cantor but by no means a mathematician

anyone with a real math background shed some light on this?









From blindmanonacid at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 16:50:16 2010
From: blindmanonacid at gmail.com (Martin .)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 22:50:16 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Pitch Shifting with Formant shift?
Message-ID: <d3c4e9f21002171350w73dff146m51c76301772f64ee@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm looking for a free VST or pd/max patch that can do pitch shifting with
separate formant shift (PSOLA), such as MuVoice (
http://www.mu-technologies.com/) or Elastique Pitch (
http://products.zplane.de/index.php?page=elastiquepitch), but it seems very
hard to find. Anyone got an idea I'd be very thankful.

cheers,
martin
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From traktorman at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 17:27:46 2010
From: traktorman at gmail.com (tkrakowiak)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:27:46 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Piano Paradox
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.1002161017470.8036@chow.mat.jhu.edu>
References: <5badef3b1002160324l40d8802cpa2c4783f2a73ab46@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.1002161017470.8036@chow.mat.jhu.edu>
Message-ID: <aa0f71fc1002171427l3ae5b6ednc6a85479e78bdd8d@mail.gmail.com>

>
>
>
> You would have to be more precise about what you mean about "figures that
> make the aleph-1 set" (do you mean countable ordinal numbers? How do you
> take the sum of all such things?) but in any case, even if such a thing were
> possible (which is extremely dubious), you would have another string whose
> sound, when struck, is essentially the same as that of a completely damped
> string.
>
>
>
>
 no, you just wait infinity to hear it back
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From ejschoster at gmail.com  Wed Feb 17 17:41:04 2010
From: ejschoster at gmail.com (erik schoster)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:41:04 -0800
Subject: [microsound] Pitch Shifting with Formant shift?
In-Reply-To: <d3c4e9f21002171350w73dff146m51c76301772f64ee@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d3c4e9f21002171350w73dff146m51c76301772f64ee@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3e29bbbb1002171441n6689a93cxcd2bee464a0d6da9@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Martin -

Check out Tristan Jehan's shifter~ here:
http://web.media.mit.edu/~tristan/maxmsp.html

Best,
Erik

On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Martin . <blindmanonacid at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm looking for a free VST or pd/max patch that can do pitch shifting with
> separate formant shift (PSOLA), such as MuVoice (
> http://www.mu-technologies.com/) or Elastique Pitch (
> http://products.zplane.de/index.php?page=elastiquepitch), but it seems
> very hard to find. Anyone got an idea I'd be very thankful.
>
> cheers,
> martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
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From trond.lossius at bek.no  Thu Feb 18 11:50:09 2010
From: trond.lossius at bek.no (Trond Lossius)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:50:09 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Pitch Shifting with Formant shift?
In-Reply-To: <3e29bbbb1002171441n6689a93cxcd2bee464a0d6da9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d3c4e9f21002171350w73dff146m51c76301772f64ee@mail.gmail.com>
	<3e29bbbb1002171441n6689a93cxcd2bee464a0d6da9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3C5CC5CD-9391-4120-ADEF-19BF371CB1AD@bek.no>

You could also look into FTM and Gabor for Max. There are some nifty examples in Gabor, although you might have to calculate to spend a bit of time to figure out how FTM and Gabor work.

Best,
Trond


On Feb 17, 2010, at 11:41 PM, erik schoster wrote:

> Hey Martin - 
> 
> Check out Tristan Jehan's shifter~ here: http://web.media.mit.edu/~tristan/maxmsp.html
> 
> Best,
> Erik
> 
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Martin . <blindmanonacid at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking for a free VST or pd/max patch that can do pitch shifting with separate formant shift (PSOLA), such as MuVoice (http://www.mu-technologies.com/) or Elastique Pitch (http://products.zplane.de/index.php?page=elastiquepitch), but it seems very hard to find. Anyone got an idea I'd be very thankful.
> 
> cheers,
> martin
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From kim at anechoicmedia.com  Fri Feb 19 12:51:55 2010
From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:51:55 -0800
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed (redux)
Message-ID: <4B7ECFBB.8030207@anechoicmedia.com>

anyone want to take a shot at designing the graphics for the Pi Day
project page?


From kim at anechoicmedia.com  Fri Feb 19 12:52:10 2010
From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 09:52:10 -0800
Subject: [microsound] reminder: Pi Day 2010
Message-ID: <4B7ECFCA.3070509@anechoicmedia.com>

new Pi Day project

rules:
- the piece must make use of the constant known as Pi = 3.14159 in some way
- each piece should be EXACTLY 3 minutes and 14 seconds in length
- file format is mp3 and ALL ID3 TAGS MUST BE CORRECTLY ENTERED or the
piece will be deleted from the server

deadline: Friday March 12 2010

server info: you must log into the project server using the SAME email
address you are sub'd to this list with
if you experience difficulties gaining access then ask someone on the
list for assistance

ladies and gentlemen,
happy calculations and computations




From herrickalan at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 13:54:21 2010
From: herrickalan at yahoo.com (Alan Herrick)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:54:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed (redux)
In-Reply-To: <4B7ECFBB.8030207@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B7ECFBB.8030207@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <60523.3919.qm@web83601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi Kim, 

I would be more than happy to do it again this year if no one else objects or has plans to do it.

Alan




________________________________
From: Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com>
To: microsound_list <microsound at or8.net>
Sent: Fri, February 19, 2010 9:51:55 AM
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed (redux)

anyone want to take a shot at designing the graphics for the Pi Day
project page?

_______________________________________________
microsound mailing list
microsound at microsound.org
http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
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From herrickalan at yahoo.com  Fri Feb 19 13:54:21 2010
From: herrickalan at yahoo.com (Alan Herrick)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 10:54:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed (redux)
In-Reply-To: <4B7ECFBB.8030207@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B7ECFBB.8030207@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <60523.3919.qm@web83601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi Kim, 

I would be more than happy to do it again this year if no one else objects or has plans to do it.

Alan




________________________________
From: Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com>
To: microsound_list <microsound at or8.net>
Sent: Fri, February 19, 2010 9:51:55 AM
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed (redux)

anyone want to take a shot at designing the graphics for the Pi Day
project page?

_______________________________________________
microsound mailing list
microsound at microsound.org
http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
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From prolepsis at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 14:15:25 2010
From: prolepsis at gmail.com (Al Matthews)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:15:25 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed (redux)
In-Reply-To: <60523.3919.qm@web83601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7ECFBB.8030207@anechoicmedia.com>
	<60523.3919.qm@web83601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d3f72e841002191115x7b0c8641j422721a1039966b7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all. I don't object but I wouldn't mind giving it a shot either.

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Alan Herrick <herrickalan at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Kim,
>
> I would be more than happy to do it again this year if no one else objects
> or has plans to do it.
>
> Alan
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com>
> *To:* microsound_list <microsound at or8.net>
> *Sent:* Fri, February 19, 2010 9:51:55 AM
> *Subject:* [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed (redux)
>
> anyone want to take a shot at designing the graphics for the Pi Day
> project page?
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>


-- 
Al Matthews, Programmer Support Specialist

Archives and Special Collections,
Robert W. Woodruff Library,
Atlanta University Center

amatthews at auctr.edu
prolepsis at gmail.com

1 404 978 2057, direct
1 337 214 4688, gvoice
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From prolepsis at gmail.com  Fri Feb 19 14:15:25 2010
From: prolepsis at gmail.com (Al Matthews)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:15:25 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed (redux)
In-Reply-To: <60523.3919.qm@web83601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <4B7ECFBB.8030207@anechoicmedia.com>
	<60523.3919.qm@web83601.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d3f72e841002191115x7b0c8641j422721a1039966b7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all. I don't object but I wouldn't mind giving it a shot either.

On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Alan Herrick <herrickalan at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi Kim,
>
> I would be more than happy to do it again this year if no one else objects
> or has plans to do it.
>
> Alan
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Kim Cascone <kim at anechoicmedia.com>
> *To:* microsound_list <microsound at or8.net>
> *Sent:* Fri, February 19, 2010 9:51:55 AM
> *Subject:* [microsound] Pi Day graphics needed (redux)
>
> anyone want to take a shot at designing the graphics for the Pi Day
> project page?
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>


-- 
Al Matthews, Programmer Support Specialist

Archives and Special Collections,
Robert W. Woodruff Library,
Atlanta University Center

amatthews at auctr.edu
prolepsis at gmail.com

1 404 978 2057, direct
1 337 214 4688, gvoice
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From technohead3d at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 22 10:33:24 2010
From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:33:24 +0000
Subject: [microsound] Piano Paradox
In-Reply-To: <aa0f71fc1002171427l3ae5b6ednc6a85479e78bdd8d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5badef3b1002160324l40d8802cpa2c4783f2a73ab46@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.1002161017470.8036@chow.mat.jhu.edu>
	<aa0f71fc1002171427l3ae5b6ednc6a85479e78bdd8d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5badef3b1002220733w6d0aa0e3vca068e628a36f936@mail.gmail.com>

You're very welcome Erik :) Thanks for such an extensive response
too, Andrew; I'm grateful for that. Thank you all for your responses.
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From vze26m98 at optonline.net  Mon Feb 22 11:45:18 2010
From: vze26m98 at optonline.net (Charles Turner)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:45:18 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Paris?
In-Reply-To: <2F239484-FA2D-47E9-AA0D-9EDDD7C9BF32@o-o-o-o.org>
References: <895D932C-01EE-41F1-BB7C-DC68DD4F0EBA@optonline.net>
	<82244388479938502433645012989218462092-Webmail@me.com>
	<5df1da2b1002151239n6e66a145gadd3e3558cb41e03@mail.gmail.com>
	<2F239484-FA2D-47E9-AA0D-9EDDD7C9BF32@o-o-o-o.org>
Message-ID: <6D8C065C-C4F7-4AAC-A147-0EB47C396F92@optonline.net>

Belated thanks to everyone who responded to my request for habitation  
in Paris. I finally connected with a friend and have a cozy place to  
bunk.

See you all there!

Charles


From technohead3d at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 22 17:38:20 2010
From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:38:20 +0000
Subject: [microsound] Piano Paradox
In-Reply-To: <4B7C6205.8000408@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B7C6205.8000408@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <5badef3b1002221438u221353eand40a487d068d3527@mail.gmail.com>

Again, a very inspiring response. Thanks Kim! I love the idea of the string
as a circle. Excellent stuff.
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From technohead3d at googlemail.com  Mon Feb 22 17:38:20 2010
From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:38:20 +0000
Subject: [microsound] Piano Paradox
In-Reply-To: <4B7C6205.8000408@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B7C6205.8000408@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <5badef3b1002221438u221353eand40a487d068d3527@mail.gmail.com>

Again, a very inspiring response. Thanks Kim! I love the idea of the string
as a circle. Excellent stuff.
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From cyborgk at gmail.com  Mon Feb 22 19:03:26 2010
From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:03:26 -0600
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
Message-ID: <686ba4e41002221603r2fbcbf2dr563c21bc72d4a69@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings,

For a new project (actually Pi Day), I have decided to take a
different route and compose my piece in a more traditional manner,
basically as a piano piece, and then add in electronic elements, some
of which will probably be based on probabilities and some more or less
notated.

So with that being said, in my mind the great weakness in the classic
books for electronic techniques that I've read ('Formalized Music' and
'Microsound') is that, in my opinion, they fail to bridge the gap
between the world of composing as I know it, and new ways of
approaching sound. I am not interested in discarding traditional
techniques but rather extending them.

So, I would be interested to hear from composers who work with
traditional musical materials and instruments alongside electronic,
especially those who use "normal" notation, manipulate cells and
motives, and do not rely on improvisation for the performance of the
electronic elements. How do you approach the use of electronics in
your work? How do you bridge the gap in sound between the electronic
and acoustic elements in your piece? Any software and technology that
you find to be especially helpful? If you work on micro timescales,
how do you bridge the gap between that timescale and the more normal
timescale of notated music?

I'm considering finally digging into CSound to do the current piece;
the other options that occur to me offhand are ChucK, for the Physical
Modeling code, and PD, which I know reasonably well but usually only
use to generate data which I send via MIDI or OSC elsewhere. Any
advice would be appreciated.

~David

From lsutton at libero.it  Tue Feb 23 10:08:51 2010
From: lsutton at libero.it (Lorenzo)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:08:51 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <686ba4e41002221603r2fbcbf2dr563c21bc72d4a69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <686ba4e41002221603r2fbcbf2dr563c21bc72d4a69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B83EF83.7070303@libero.it>

Hi David,
It's nice to have this kind of discussion. Hope my email is not too long :)

I'm a musician with "traditional" (classical guitar and musicology 
studies) who has recently started studying (as a worker) electronic 
music... so not so many electronic pieces, yet.
While reading your email I thought, though, of a recent piece for piano 
and electronics I did for an assignment. Unfortunately I haven't found a 
'real' pianist willing to play it. The assignement was to start from 
different small series of notes and expand on those then also create an 
electronic part, but it wasn't so strict. I decided to restric myself 
only to a selected few I liked and then elaborate on those, both for the 
piano and the electronic part, I also chose to restrict the electronic 
part to only be elaborations of the recorded piano.

I posted the material here: 
http://www.kompoz.com/compose-collaborate/home.project?projectId=14152 
hoping some pianist would be interested (a full 'rendered' is also 
available together with a low-res score)

My performance idea was to have the pianist have also fun while playing, 
and while the timing on the score is quite precise, I'd like the 
possible player to 'play' (in the fun meaning) with the electronics, as 
if they were another 'performer'.

For this reason I created a visual 'score' which is more an 
impressionistic one than a scientific one: it's to give a visual clue to 
the piano player possibly giving him/her hints. I think reading the 
score while listening to the piece is pretty self-explanatory.
The piece got very good reaction and encouragement from my tutors and 
colleagues, yet as I said has never been performed live :(

As for tools, I'm a linux guy now and used rosegarden+lilypond for 
writing the piano score (after taking some sketches on paper while at a 
real piano) and inkscape for the electronic part.
The electronics, as said, are all electronic elaborations based on the 
recording of the piano part (of course in this case it's a sampled one) 
and were processed with PD and ardour.
I love PD as a tool to try out and experiment new sounds, because I find 
it easy to prototype stuff that plays soon (vs csound etc where you have 
to write a lot before hearing something..) but that's a matter of 
personal taste.

Happy you started such a stimulating dicussion.

All the best,
Lorenzo.
PS: Should you really be more interested I have a more hi-res version of 
the score which is supposed to be printed in A3.
> Greetings,
>
> For a new project (actually Pi Day), I have decided to take a
> different route and compose my piece in a more traditional manner,
> basically as a piano piece, and then add in electronic elements, some
> of which will probably be based on probabilities and some more or less
> notated.
>
> So with that being said, in my mind the great weakness in the classic
> books for electronic techniques that I've read ('Formalized Music' and
> 'Microsound') is that, in my opinion, they fail to bridge the gap
> between the world of composing as I know it, and new ways of
> approaching sound. I am not interested in discarding traditional
> techniques but rather extending them.
>
> So, I would be interested to hear from composers who work with
> traditional musical materials and instruments alongside electronic,
> especially those who use "normal" notation, manipulate cells and
> motives, and do not rely on improvisation for the performance of the
> electronic elements. How do you approach the use of electronics in
> your work? How do you bridge the gap in sound between the electronic
> and acoustic elements in your piece? Any software and technology that
> you find to be especially helpful? If you work on micro timescales,
> how do you bridge the gap between that timescale and the more normal
> timescale of notated music?
>
> I'm considering finally digging into CSound to do the current piece;
> the other options that occur to me offhand are ChucK, for the Physical
> Modeling code, and PD, which I know reasonably well but usually only
> use to generate data which I send via MIDI or OSC elsewhere. Any
> advice would be appreciated.
>
> ~David
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>    


From randal_davis at operamail.com  Tue Feb 23 14:37:56 2010
From: randal_davis at operamail.com (Randal Davis)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:37:56 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
Message-ID: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>

David,

You might start by looking into Morton Subotnick's "ghost scores."  You can find some program and technical notes on his website, recordings and additional texts at the Avant Garde Project site, and a good article from some years back in The Musical Quarterly (requires JSTOR access).  

I'd look particularly closely at the works in The Double Life of Amphibians, which include works for solo cello, solo voice and string quartet (all with electronic "ghost scores."  

RD

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Powers" <cyborgk at gmail.com>
> To: microsound at microsound.org
> Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:03:26 -0600
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> For a new project (actually Pi Day), I have decided to take a
> different route and compose my piece in a more traditional manner,
> basically as a piano piece, and then add in electronic elements, some
> of which will probably be based on probabilities and some more or less
> notated.
> 
> So with that being said, in my mind the great weakness in the classic
> books for electronic techniques that I've read ('Formalized Music' and
> 'Microsound') is that, in my opinion, they fail to bridge the gap
> between the world of composing as I know it, and new ways of
> approaching sound. I am not interested in discarding traditional
> techniques but rather extending them.
> 
> So, I would be interested to hear from composers who work with
> traditional musical materials and instruments alongside electronic,
> especially those who use "normal" notation, manipulate cells and
> motives, and do not rely on improvisation for the performance of the
> electronic elements. How do you approach the use of electronics in
> your work? How do you bridge the gap in sound between the electronic
> and acoustic elements in your piece? Any software and technology that
> you find to be especially helpful? If you work on micro timescales,
> how do you bridge the gap between that timescale and the more normal
> timescale of notated music?
> 
> I'm considering finally digging into CSound to do the current piece;
> the other options that occur to me offhand are ChucK, for the Physical
> Modeling code, and PD, which I know reasonably well but usually only
> use to generate data which I send via MIDI or OSC elsewhere. Any
> advice would be appreciated.
> 
> ~David
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound

>


-- 
_______________________________________________
Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com

Powered by Outblaze

From stevericksmusic at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 15:08:23 2010
From: stevericksmusic at gmail.com (Steven Ricks)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:08:23 -0700
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>

I think Mario Davidovsky's Synchronisms are essential pieces if you're
interested in a "traditional" approach to composing for traditional Western
acoustic instruments plus electronics.  All of them include scores which
become increasingly more specific in terms of notating what the electronics
are doing and how the live instrument syncs up with them.

I apologize if I've misunderstood your question and these works are known to
you.  Anyway, in an an interview with guitarist David Starobin, Davidovsky
says something to the effect of wanting to imbed the sound of the guitar (or
whatever instrument he's dealing with) into the electronics, and vice
versa.  It's an approach in which the sounds/timbres of the two mediums are
meant to dovetail and be closely related, at least much of the time.

SR

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Randal Davis
<randal_davis at operamail.com>wrote:

> David,
>
> You might start by looking into Morton Subotnick's "ghost scores."  You can
> find some program and technical notes on his website, recordings and
> additional texts at the Avant Garde Project site, and a good article from
> some years back in The Musical Quarterly (requires JSTOR access).
>
> I'd look particularly closely at the works in The Double Life of
> Amphibians, which include works for solo cello, solo voice and string
> quartet (all with electronic "ghost scores."
>
> RD
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Powers" <cyborgk at gmail.com>
> > To: microsound at microsound.org
> > Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
> > Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:03:26 -0600
> >
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > For a new project (actually Pi Day), I have decided to take a
> > different route and compose my piece in a more traditional manner,
> > basically as a piano piece, and then add in electronic elements, some
> > of which will probably be based on probabilities and some more or less
> > notated.
> >
> > So with that being said, in my mind the great weakness in the classic
> > books for electronic techniques that I've read ('Formalized Music' and
> > 'Microsound') is that, in my opinion, they fail to bridge the gap
> > between the world of composing as I know it, and new ways of
> > approaching sound. I am not interested in discarding traditional
> > techniques but rather extending them.
> >
> > So, I would be interested to hear from composers who work with
> > traditional musical materials and instruments alongside electronic,
> > especially those who use "normal" notation, manipulate cells and
> > motives, and do not rely on improvisation for the performance of the
> > electronic elements. How do you approach the use of electronics in
> > your work? How do you bridge the gap in sound between the electronic
> > and acoustic elements in your piece? Any software and technology that
> > you find to be especially helpful? If you work on micro timescales,
> > how do you bridge the gap between that timescale and the more normal
> > timescale of notated music?
> >
> > I'm considering finally digging into CSound to do the current piece;
> > the other options that occur to me offhand are ChucK, for the Physical
> > Modeling code, and PD, which I know reasonably well but usually only
> > use to generate data which I send via MIDI or OSC elsewhere. Any
> > advice would be appreciated.
> >
> > ~David
> > _______________________________________________
> > microsound mailing list
> > microsound at microsound.org
> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> >
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
> Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
>
> Powered by Outblaze
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>



-- 
Steven Ricks
Composer
Associate Professor, BYU School of Music
(801) 422-6115
www.stevericks.com
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From cyborgk at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 16:22:26 2010
From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:22:26 -0600
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>
	<7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>

These answers are interesting, and do suggest one possible approach,
which seems to be to let the electronic timbres grow out of the
timbres being produced by the acoustic instruments.

However, I don't seem to be able to find any concrete information on
how, for instance, I might use CSound or other software to emulate
such techniques...

CSound is itself a monster of a program to learn, so anything that
might point me towards useful techniques might be useful--I can
produce basic sounds but I'm not fully sure how to create a workflow
and actually compose with it. Creating instruments that respond to
MIDI does look somewhat promising, and I suppose I could go as far as
creating an instrument for each electronic sound I wish to create, and
simply trigger as needed.

I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
electronic music.

One side note, is that for the first run of things, I'm only making a
recording... so I don't need things to work in realtime per-se, they
just need to be able to be aligned with a score. I will also probably
use MIDI for the piano part, since I don't have the means to record a
proper piano right now, so that gives me some additional flexibility.
I'm hoping what I learn could eventually be extended to actual live
performances with acoustic instruments, but I don't have to get all
the way there in one leap.

I currently don't have any way to access either JSTOR to get articles,
or the scores of the works mentioned, although the Avant Garde Project
at least has Subotnick audio files, which I'm downloading this very
minute.

It is unfortunate that despite the supposed open access to information
provide by the internet, much of the good stuff is locked away and
only accessible to university students and faculty, unless one has a
fair amount of disposable income. In the last year this problem has
been hampering me more and more, to the point where I am considering
enrolling in university courses simply to afford access to research...

~David

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Steven Ricks <stevericksmusic at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think Mario Davidovsky's Synchronisms are essential pieces if you're
> interested in a "traditional" approach to composing for traditional Western
> acoustic instruments plus electronics.? All of them include scores which
> become increasingly more specific in terms of notating what the electronics
> are doing and how the live instrument syncs up with them.
>
> I apologize if I've misunderstood your question and these works are known to
> you.? Anyway, in an an interview with guitarist David Starobin, Davidovsky
> says something to the effect of wanting to imbed the sound of the guitar (or
> whatever instrument he's dealing with) into the electronics, and vice
> versa.? It's an approach in which the sounds/timbres of the two mediums are
> meant to dovetail and be closely related, at least much of the time.
>
> SR
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Randal Davis <randal_davis at operamail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> David,
>>
>> You might start by looking into Morton Subotnick's "ghost scores." ?You
>> can find some program and technical notes on his website, recordings and
>> additional texts at the Avant Garde Project site, and a good article from
>> some years back in The Musical Quarterly (requires JSTOR access).
>>
>> I'd look particularly closely at the works in The Double Life of
>> Amphibians, which include works for solo cello, solo voice and string
>> quartet (all with electronic "ghost scores."
>>
>> RD
>>
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "David Powers" <cyborgk at gmail.com>
>> > To: microsound at microsound.org
>> > Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
>> > Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:03:26 -0600
>> >
>> >
>> > Greetings,
>> >
>> > For a new project (actually Pi Day), I have decided to take a
>> > different route and compose my piece in a more traditional manner,
>> > basically as a piano piece, and then add in electronic elements, some
>> > of which will probably be based on probabilities and some more or less
>> > notated.
>> >
>> > So with that being said, in my mind the great weakness in the classic
>> > books for electronic techniques that I've read ('Formalized Music' and
>> > 'Microsound') is that, in my opinion, they fail to bridge the gap
>> > between the world of composing as I know it, and new ways of
>> > approaching sound. I am not interested in discarding traditional
>> > techniques but rather extending them.
>> >
>> > So, I would be interested to hear from composers who work with
>> > traditional musical materials and instruments alongside electronic,
>> > especially those who use "normal" notation, manipulate cells and
>> > motives, and do not rely on improvisation for the performance of the
>> > electronic elements. How do you approach the use of electronics in
>> > your work? How do you bridge the gap in sound between the electronic
>> > and acoustic elements in your piece? Any software and technology that
>> > you find to be especially helpful? If you work on micro timescales,
>> > how do you bridge the gap between that timescale and the more normal
>> > timescale of notated music?
>> >
>> > I'm considering finally digging into CSound to do the current piece;
>> > the other options that occur to me offhand are ChucK, for the Physical
>> > Modeling code, and PD, which I know reasonably well but usually only
>> > use to generate data which I send via MIDI or OSC elsewhere. Any
>> > advice would be appreciated.
>> >
>> > ~David
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > microsound mailing list
>> > microsound at microsound.org
>> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> _______________________________________________
>> Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
>> Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
>>
>> Powered by Outblaze
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Ricks
> Composer
> Associate Professor, BYU School of Music
> (801) 422-6115
> www.stevericks.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>

From trond.lossius at bek.no  Tue Feb 23 17:00:18 2010
From: trond.lossius at bek.no (Trond Lossius)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:00:18 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>
	<7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>
	<686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F149476B-28F7-46F2-B1D5-458C406188AD@bek.no>

On Feb 23, 2010, at 10:22 PM, David Powers wrote:

> --I can
> produce basic sounds but I'm not fully sure how to create a workflow
> and actually compose with it. Creating instruments that respond to
> MIDI does look somewhat promising, and I suppose I could go as far as
> creating an instrument for each electronic sound I wish to create, and
> simply trigger as needed.


Hi,

I would personally question this approach as compared to processing audio directly.

I think it is pretty interesting to compare the recording Brian Eno did with his brother Roger to the two collaborations with Harold Budd for Ambient #2 and The Pearl. Quoting the cover notes for "Hans Friedrich Micheelson Performed by Roger Eno and produced by Brian Eno: 18 Keyboard studies"

http://www.enoshop.co.uk/search.asp?category=CD&Page=3&Items=4#

<quote>

We recorded Roger?s performances on a Yamaha Disklavier grand piano. This is a piano which also produces a midi record of the performance. Midi is the language of electronic musical instruments, and can be used to trigger synthesizers -- creating a facsimile of the performance but using different sounds. This allowed me to blend (or even completely replace) the original piano sounds with specially-constructed new timbres.

By this technique I hoped to rethink the piano as a multi-timbral instrument - to make a sort of hybrid between a grand piano and a church organ. - Brian Eno

</quote>

On paper this seems interesting, but I find the sounding results far less intriguing than the Harold Budd collaborations (or the earlier Voices record for that sake).

The Disklavier approach is mainly a question of doubling voices using MIDI, with much the same approach to orchestration as discussed by Rimsky-Korakov in his book on orchestration: What happens if you double bassoon and oboe in octaves, what do doubling of flute and violins  sounds like, etc. Combined with e.g. Max, Pd or DAW/sequencer programs the MIDI signals could have be processed further (transpositions, delays), but it doesn't change that fact that we are talking pretty minimal control rate data flow here. The problem IMHO when listening to the Hans Friedrich Micheelson record is that they do not manage to produce interesting enough sounds on this record, compared to how I'm spoiled by other Eno records.

On The Pearl and Plataux of Mirrors Eno rather set up various audio processing processes, and AFAIK Harold Budd responded to them through improvisations. It's also pretty obvious that further processing was done once the recordings were captured to tape (e.g. reverse reverb). The processes in them semlves might have been fairly simple; combining reverb, delays, limiters, compressors, etc., but they were done in a very delicate, subtle and precise way. To me this seems a much more rich, productive and contemporary approach to orchestrating sound using electronics than the Disclavier approach.


Best,
Trond

From paulo.mouat at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 17:10:47 2010
From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:10:47 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>
	<7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>
	<686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <424ce301002231410j146e5de2g6a2f7fda918f738c@mail.gmail.com>

There is a good text by Boulez that touches on this: "A la limite du pays
fertile", published in the book "Relev?s d'apprenti". The english version of
the book is called "Stocktakings of an apprenticeship".

The problem is one of precision. Trying to compose in a traditional way on
the computer requires absolute precision (of intent, of process, of anything
that is measurable) and that in turn requires a level of detail that is
automatically understood when you notate for a traditional instrument--plus
the traditional instrument has a richer spectrum and modes of play that are
difficult to achieve on a computer without a lot of preparatory work. It is
far easier to notate a ppp col legno or sul tasto in a score than it is to
prepare the samples or physical models that give you the same result. You
could argue that you can prepare a whole library of sound samples or build a
suite of generators in your favorite synthesis program; I find that getting
them to sound "organic" and to avoid a certain "sameness" takes a lot of
effort, on top of building the library and tweaking the generators.

I did use csound in one of my pieces, however 1) I only used the
analysis/resynthesis capabilities and 2) I used acoustic sounds as source
material. The rationale was precisely to avoid getting bogged down in the
details of trying to get the organic character through purely synthetic
sounds. The piece is "Menons klagen um Diotima", if you're curious to check
the end result (link on my signature).

Hope this helps,
//p
http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:22 PM, David Powers <cyborgk at gmail.com> wrote:

> These answers are interesting, and do suggest one possible approach,
> which seems to be to let the electronic timbres grow out of the
> timbres being produced by the acoustic instruments.
>
> However, I don't seem to be able to find any concrete information on
> how, for instance, I might use CSound or other software to emulate
> such techniques...
>
> CSound is itself a monster of a program to learn, so anything that
> might point me towards useful techniques might be useful--I can
> produce basic sounds but I'm not fully sure how to create a workflow
> and actually compose with it. Creating instruments that respond to
> MIDI does look somewhat promising, and I suppose I could go as far as
> creating an instrument for each electronic sound I wish to create, and
> simply trigger as needed.
>
> I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
> music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
> involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
> extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
> incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
> paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
> create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
> need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
> yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
> electronic music.
>
> One side note, is that for the first run of things, I'm only making a
> recording... so I don't need things to work in realtime per-se, they
> just need to be able to be aligned with a score. I will also probably
> use MIDI for the piano part, since I don't have the means to record a
> proper piano right now, so that gives me some additional flexibility.
> I'm hoping what I learn could eventually be extended to actual live
> performances with acoustic instruments, but I don't have to get all
> the way there in one leap.
>
> I currently don't have any way to access either JSTOR to get articles,
> or the scores of the works mentioned, although the Avant Garde Project
> at least has Subotnick audio files, which I'm downloading this very
> minute.
>
> It is unfortunate that despite the supposed open access to information
> provide by the internet, much of the good stuff is locked away and
> only accessible to university students and faculty, unless one has a
> fair amount of disposable income. In the last year this problem has
> been hampering me more and more, to the point where I am considering
> enrolling in university courses simply to afford access to research...
>
> ~David
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Steven Ricks <stevericksmusic at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I think Mario Davidovsky's Synchronisms are essential pieces if you're
> > interested in a "traditional" approach to composing for traditional
> Western
> > acoustic instruments plus electronics.  All of them include scores which
> > become increasingly more specific in terms of notating what the
> electronics
> > are doing and how the live instrument syncs up with them.
> >
> > I apologize if I've misunderstood your question and these works are known
> to
> > you.  Anyway, in an an interview with guitarist David Starobin,
> Davidovsky
> > says something to the effect of wanting to imbed the sound of the guitar
> (or
> > whatever instrument he's dealing with) into the electronics, and vice
> > versa.  It's an approach in which the sounds/timbres of the two mediums
> are
> > meant to dovetail and be closely related, at least much of the time.
> >
> > SR
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Randal Davis <
> randal_davis at operamail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> David,
> >>
> >> You might start by looking into Morton Subotnick's "ghost scores."  You
> >> can find some program and technical notes on his website, recordings and
> >> additional texts at the Avant Garde Project site, and a good article
> from
> >> some years back in The Musical Quarterly (requires JSTOR access).
> >>
> >> I'd look particularly closely at the works in The Double Life of
> >> Amphibians, which include works for solo cello, solo voice and string
> >> quartet (all with electronic "ghost scores."
> >>
> >> RD
> >>
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "David Powers" <cyborgk at gmail.com>
> >> > To: microsound at microsound.org
> >> > Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
> >> > Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:03:26 -0600
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Greetings,
> >> >
> >> > For a new project (actually Pi Day), I have decided to take a
> >> > different route and compose my piece in a more traditional manner,
> >> > basically as a piano piece, and then add in electronic elements, some
> >> > of which will probably be based on probabilities and some more or less
> >> > notated.
> >> >
> >> > So with that being said, in my mind the great weakness in the classic
> >> > books for electronic techniques that I've read ('Formalized Music' and
> >> > 'Microsound') is that, in my opinion, they fail to bridge the gap
> >> > between the world of composing as I know it, and new ways of
> >> > approaching sound. I am not interested in discarding traditional
> >> > techniques but rather extending them.
> >> >
> >> > So, I would be interested to hear from composers who work with
> >> > traditional musical materials and instruments alongside electronic,
> >> > especially those who use "normal" notation, manipulate cells and
> >> > motives, and do not rely on improvisation for the performance of the
> >> > electronic elements. How do you approach the use of electronics in
> >> > your work? How do you bridge the gap in sound between the electronic
> >> > and acoustic elements in your piece? Any software and technology that
> >> > you find to be especially helpful? If you work on micro timescales,
> >> > how do you bridge the gap between that timescale and the more normal
> >> > timescale of notated music?
> >> >
> >> > I'm considering finally digging into CSound to do the current piece;
> >> > the other options that occur to me offhand are ChucK, for the Physical
> >> > Modeling code, and PD, which I know reasonably well but usually only
> >> > use to generate data which I send via MIDI or OSC elsewhere. Any
> >> > advice would be appreciated.
> >> >
> >> > ~David
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > microsound mailing list
> >> > microsound at microsound.org
> >> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
> >> Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
> >>
> >> Powered by Outblaze
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> microsound mailing list
> >> microsound at microsound.org
> >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Steven Ricks
> > Composer
> > Associate Professor, BYU School of Music
> > (801) 422-6115
> > www.stevericks.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > microsound mailing list
> > microsound at microsound.org
> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
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From mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es  Tue Feb 23 17:16:46 2010
From: mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jaime_Mun=E1rriz_Ortiz?=)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:16:46 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
Message-ID: <4B8453CE.1010905@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es>

Csound is a perfect tool for this purspose as you specufy the exact time 
for each note you want to hear. That makes you more strict in the notes 
you play, and start thinking about the sense and meaning of every single 
event.
You coul achieve this with Pd, with tables or Cols, but I believe Csound 
is more suitable. And it really sounds wonderful.

From kim at anechoicmedia.com  Tue Feb 23 17:35:40 2010
From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 14:35:40 -0800
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
Message-ID: <4B84583C.4010309@anechoicmedia.com>

>
> As for tools, I'm a linux guy now and used rosegarden+lilypond for 
> writing the piano score (after taking some sketches on paper while at a 
> real piano) and inkscape for the electronic part.
Lorenzo
thanks for posting this!
don't forget that GIMP takes MIDI input which might yield some 
interesting applications in the creation of graphic scores :)
KIM

From batuhan at batuhanbozkurt.com  Tue Feb 23 21:11:31 2010
From: batuhan at batuhanbozkurt.com (Batuhan Bozkurt)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 04:11:31 +0200
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>
	<7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>
	<686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A13AB34-AF9C-4BA3-B092-3A3114709BF9@batuhanbozkurt.com>

Hi David,

> I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
> music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
> involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
> extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
> incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
> paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
> create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
> need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
> yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
> electronic music.

I don't really think that this is a fair way of looking at this. Writing intricate yet functional things for traditional instruments require years of training. Playing those instruments also require a massive amount of training. Why should composing for and playing with electronic instruments be different in this sense? It is hard for me to play the violin for example, because I am not trained to play that instrument. But I can write some music for violin because I worked on that stuff. It took some years of my life to do that. It would be extremely frustrating for me to do it properly, otherwise. Same goes with electronic instruments. After all, they don't generate musically interesting sounds that fit into a particular composer's intents, automagically.

> These answers are interesting, and do suggest one possible approach,
> which seems to be to let the electronic timbres grow out of the
> timbres being produced by the acoustic instruments.
> 
> However, I don't seem to be able to find any concrete information on
> how, for instance, I might use CSound or other software to emulate
> such techniques...

I'd suggest an environment agnostic learning approach to sound synthesis first. Tools/Instruments like CSound usually assume that you already know with what "recipe" you are going to create the sounds you have in mind, and they provide the necessary tools for you to achieve them. The Computer Music Tutorial by Curtis Roads, although quite thorough, will be an excellent resource if you are serious about getting your hands dirty with electronic sound generation and manipulation in general. You can experiment with the concepts as you go, in an environment of your own choosing. You may start by trying things out with regular software synthesizers and work your way up from there by building your own sound synthesizers (if need arises) in a musical programming language (with a clear image in mind, of what to expect).

Since Max, PD and CSound are mentioned, I should add, you may want to look into SuperCollider too. But please be aware that these environments are only tools/instruments and being able to create interesting experiences with them (easily and comfortably) is not  something that will happen overnight. :)

Best,
Batuhan Bozkurt
/* http://www.earslap.com */




On Feb 23, 2010, at 11:22 PM, David Powers wrote:

> These answers are interesting, and do suggest one possible approach,
> which seems to be to let the electronic timbres grow out of the
> timbres being produced by the acoustic instruments.
> 
> However, I don't seem to be able to find any concrete information on
> how, for instance, I might use CSound or other software to emulate
> such techniques...
> 
> CSound is itself a monster of a program to learn, so anything that
> might point me towards useful techniques might be useful--I can
> produce basic sounds but I'm not fully sure how to create a workflow
> and actually compose with it. Creating instruments that respond to
> MIDI does look somewhat promising, and I suppose I could go as far as
> creating an instrument for each electronic sound I wish to create, and
> simply trigger as needed.
> 
> I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
> music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
> involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
> extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
> incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
> paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
> create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
> need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
> yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
> electronic music.
> 
> One side note, is that for the first run of things, I'm only making a
> recording... so I don't need things to work in realtime per-se, they
> just need to be able to be aligned with a score. I will also probably
> use MIDI for the piano part, since I don't have the means to record a
> proper piano right now, so that gives me some additional flexibility.
> I'm hoping what I learn could eventually be extended to actual live
> performances with acoustic instruments, but I don't have to get all
> the way there in one leap.
> 
> I currently don't have any way to access either JSTOR to get articles,
> or the scores of the works mentioned, although the Avant Garde Project
> at least has Subotnick audio files, which I'm downloading this very
> minute.
> 
> It is unfortunate that despite the supposed open access to information
> provide by the internet, much of the good stuff is locked away and
> only accessible to university students and faculty, unless one has a
> fair amount of disposable income. In the last year this problem has
> been hampering me more and more, to the point where I am considering
> enrolling in university courses simply to afford access to research...
> 
> ~David
> 
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Steven Ricks <stevericksmusic at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think Mario Davidovsky's Synchronisms are essential pieces if you're
>> interested in a "traditional" approach to composing for traditional Western
>> acoustic instruments plus electronics.  All of them include scores which
>> become increasingly more specific in terms of notating what the electronics
>> are doing and how the live instrument syncs up with them.
>> 
>> I apologize if I've misunderstood your question and these works are known to
>> you.  Anyway, in an an interview with guitarist David Starobin, Davidovsky
>> says something to the effect of wanting to imbed the sound of the guitar (or
>> whatever instrument he's dealing with) into the electronics, and vice
>> versa.  It's an approach in which the sounds/timbres of the two mediums are
>> meant to dovetail and be closely related, at least much of the time.
>> 
>> SR
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Randal Davis <randal_davis at operamail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> David,
>>> 
>>> You might start by looking into Morton Subotnick's "ghost scores."  You
>>> can find some program and technical notes on his website, recordings and
>>> additional texts at the Avant Garde Project site, and a good article from
>>> some years back in The Musical Quarterly (requires JSTOR access).
>>> 
>>> I'd look particularly closely at the works in The Double Life of
>>> Amphibians, which include works for solo cello, solo voice and string
>>> quartet (all with electronic "ghost scores."
>>> 
>>> RD
>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "David Powers" <cyborgk at gmail.com>
>>>> To: microsound at microsound.org
>>>> Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
>>>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:03:26 -0600
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Greetings,
>>>> 
>>>> For a new project (actually Pi Day), I have decided to take a
>>>> different route and compose my piece in a more traditional manner,
>>>> basically as a piano piece, and then add in electronic elements, some
>>>> of which will probably be based on probabilities and some more or less
>>>> notated.
>>>> 
>>>> So with that being said, in my mind the great weakness in the classic
>>>> books for electronic techniques that I've read ('Formalized Music' and
>>>> 'Microsound') is that, in my opinion, they fail to bridge the gap
>>>> between the world of composing as I know it, and new ways of
>>>> approaching sound. I am not interested in discarding traditional
>>>> techniques but rather extending them.
>>>> 
>>>> So, I would be interested to hear from composers who work with
>>>> traditional musical materials and instruments alongside electronic,
>>>> especially those who use "normal" notation, manipulate cells and
>>>> motives, and do not rely on improvisation for the performance of the
>>>> electronic elements. How do you approach the use of electronics in
>>>> your work? How do you bridge the gap in sound between the electronic
>>>> and acoustic elements in your piece? Any software and technology that
>>>> you find to be especially helpful? If you work on micro timescales,
>>>> how do you bridge the gap between that timescale and the more normal
>>>> timescale of notated music?
>>>> 
>>>> I'm considering finally digging into CSound to do the current piece;
>>>> the other options that occur to me offhand are ChucK, for the Physical
>>>> Modeling code, and PD, which I know reasonably well but usually only
>>>> use to generate data which I send via MIDI or OSC elsewhere. Any
>>>> advice would be appreciated.
>>>> 
>>>> ~David
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
>>> Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
>>> 
>>> Powered by Outblaze
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Steven Ricks
>> Composer
>> Associate Professor, BYU School of Music
>> (801) 422-6115
>> www.stevericks.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> microsound mailing list
>> microsound at microsound.org
>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound


From stevericksmusic at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 01:42:06 2010
From: stevericksmusic at gmail.com (Steven Ricks)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:42:06 -0700
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <4A13AB34-AF9C-4BA3-B092-3A3114709BF9@batuhanbozkurt.com>
References: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>
	<7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>
	<686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A13AB34-AF9C-4BA3-B092-3A3114709BF9@batuhanbozkurt.com>
Message-ID: <7a0414351002232242y3338bfecsc3a35131f802226a@mail.gmail.com>

Right--with electronic music a composer essentially also becomes an
instrument inventor/builder and performer.  I'm drawing a blank on the exact
reference right now, but I remember an electronic music practitioner in some
mag talking about having to choose (each day?) between actually being
"creative," dealing with notes/sounds and learning software/gear, which can
be tedious and feel less creative at times. blah blah

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:11 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt <batuhan at batuhanbozkurt.com
> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> > I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
> > music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
> > involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
> > extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
> > incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
> > paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
> > create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
> > need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
> > yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
> > electronic music.
>
> I don't really think that this is a fair way of looking at this. Writing
> intricate yet functional things for traditional instruments require years of
> training. Playing those instruments also require a massive amount of
> training. Why should composing for and playing with electronic instruments
> be different in this sense? It is hard for me to play the violin for
> example, because I am not trained to play that instrument. But I can write
> some music for violin because I worked on that stuff. It took some years of
> my life to do that. It would be extremely frustrating for me to do it
> properly, otherwise. Same goes with electronic instruments. After all, they
> don't generate musically interesting sounds that fit into a particular
> composer's intents, automagically.
>
> > These answers are interesting, and do suggest one possible approach,
> > which seems to be to let the electronic timbres grow out of the
> > timbres being produced by the acoustic instruments.
> >
> > However, I don't seem to be able to find any concrete information on
> > how, for instance, I might use CSound or other software to emulate
> > such techniques...
>
> I'd suggest an environment agnostic learning approach to sound synthesis
> first. Tools/Instruments like CSound usually assume that you already know
> with what "recipe" you are going to create the sounds you have in mind, and
> they provide the necessary tools for you to achieve them. The Computer Music
> Tutorial by Curtis Roads, although quite thorough, will be an excellent
> resource if you are serious about getting your hands dirty with electronic
> sound generation and manipulation in general. You can experiment with the
> concepts as you go, in an environment of your own choosing. You may start by
> trying things out with regular software synthesizers and work your way up
> from there by building your own sound synthesizers (if need arises) in a
> musical programming language (with a clear image in mind, of what to
> expect).
>
> Since Max, PD and CSound are mentioned, I should add, you may want to look
> into SuperCollider too. But please be aware that these environments are only
> tools/instruments and being able to create interesting experiences with them
> (easily and comfortably) is not  something that will happen overnight. :)
>
> Best,
> Batuhan Bozkurt
> /* http://www.earslap.com */
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2010, at 11:22 PM, David Powers wrote:
>
> > These answers are interesting, and do suggest one possible approach,
> > which seems to be to let the electronic timbres grow out of the
> > timbres being produced by the acoustic instruments.
> >
> > However, I don't seem to be able to find any concrete information on
> > how, for instance, I might use CSound or other software to emulate
> > such techniques...
> >
> > CSound is itself a monster of a program to learn, so anything that
> > might point me towards useful techniques might be useful--I can
> > produce basic sounds but I'm not fully sure how to create a workflow
> > and actually compose with it. Creating instruments that respond to
> > MIDI does look somewhat promising, and I suppose I could go as far as
> > creating an instrument for each electronic sound I wish to create, and
> > simply trigger as needed.
> >
> > I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
> > music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
> > involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
> > extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
> > incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
> > paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
> > create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
> > need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
> > yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
> > electronic music.
> >
> > One side note, is that for the first run of things, I'm only making a
> > recording... so I don't need things to work in realtime per-se, they
> > just need to be able to be aligned with a score. I will also probably
> > use MIDI for the piano part, since I don't have the means to record a
> > proper piano right now, so that gives me some additional flexibility.
> > I'm hoping what I learn could eventually be extended to actual live
> > performances with acoustic instruments, but I don't have to get all
> > the way there in one leap.
> >
> > I currently don't have any way to access either JSTOR to get articles,
> > or the scores of the works mentioned, although the Avant Garde Project
> > at least has Subotnick audio files, which I'm downloading this very
> > minute.
> >
> > It is unfortunate that despite the supposed open access to information
> > provide by the internet, much of the good stuff is locked away and
> > only accessible to university students and faculty, unless one has a
> > fair amount of disposable income. In the last year this problem has
> > been hampering me more and more, to the point where I am considering
> > enrolling in university courses simply to afford access to research...
> >
> > ~David
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Steven Ricks <stevericksmusic at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I think Mario Davidovsky's Synchronisms are essential pieces if you're
> >> interested in a "traditional" approach to composing for traditional
> Western
> >> acoustic instruments plus electronics.  All of them include scores which
> >> become increasingly more specific in terms of notating what the
> electronics
> >> are doing and how the live instrument syncs up with them.
> >>
> >> I apologize if I've misunderstood your question and these works are
> known to
> >> you.  Anyway, in an an interview with guitarist David Starobin,
> Davidovsky
> >> says something to the effect of wanting to imbed the sound of the guitar
> (or
> >> whatever instrument he's dealing with) into the electronics, and vice
> >> versa.  It's an approach in which the sounds/timbres of the two mediums
> are
> >> meant to dovetail and be closely related, at least much of the time.
> >>
> >> SR
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Randal Davis <
> randal_davis at operamail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> David,
> >>>
> >>> You might start by looking into Morton Subotnick's "ghost scores."  You
> >>> can find some program and technical notes on his website, recordings
> and
> >>> additional texts at the Avant Garde Project site, and a good article
> from
> >>> some years back in The Musical Quarterly (requires JSTOR access).
> >>>
> >>> I'd look particularly closely at the works in The Double Life of
> >>> Amphibians, which include works for solo cello, solo voice and string
> >>> quartet (all with electronic "ghost scores."
> >>>
> >>> RD
> >>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "David Powers" <cyborgk at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: microsound at microsound.org
> >>>> Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
> >>>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:03:26 -0600
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Greetings,
> >>>>
> >>>> For a new project (actually Pi Day), I have decided to take a
> >>>> different route and compose my piece in a more traditional manner,
> >>>> basically as a piano piece, and then add in electronic elements, some
> >>>> of which will probably be based on probabilities and some more or less
> >>>> notated.
> >>>>
> >>>> So with that being said, in my mind the great weakness in the classic
> >>>> books for electronic techniques that I've read ('Formalized Music' and
> >>>> 'Microsound') is that, in my opinion, they fail to bridge the gap
> >>>> between the world of composing as I know it, and new ways of
> >>>> approaching sound. I am not interested in discarding traditional
> >>>> techniques but rather extending them.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, I would be interested to hear from composers who work with
> >>>> traditional musical materials and instruments alongside electronic,
> >>>> especially those who use "normal" notation, manipulate cells and
> >>>> motives, and do not rely on improvisation for the performance of the
> >>>> electronic elements. How do you approach the use of electronics in
> >>>> your work? How do you bridge the gap in sound between the electronic
> >>>> and acoustic elements in your piece? Any software and technology that
> >>>> you find to be especially helpful? If you work on micro timescales,
> >>>> how do you bridge the gap between that timescale and the more normal
> >>>> timescale of notated music?
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm considering finally digging into CSound to do the current piece;
> >>>> the other options that occur to me offhand are ChucK, for the Physical
> >>>> Modeling code, and PD, which I know reasonably well but usually only
> >>>> use to generate data which I send via MIDI or OSC elsewhere. Any
> >>>> advice would be appreciated.
> >>>>
> >>>> ~David
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> microsound mailing list
> >>>> microsound at microsound.org
> >>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
> >>> Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
> >>>
> >>> Powered by Outblaze
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> microsound mailing list
> >>> microsound at microsound.org
> >>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Steven Ricks
> >> Composer
> >> Associate Professor, BYU School of Music
> >> (801) 422-6115
> >> www.stevericks.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> microsound mailing list
> >> microsound at microsound.org
> >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > microsound mailing list
> > microsound at microsound.org
> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>



-- 
Steven Ricks
Composer
Associate Professor, BYU School of Music
(801) 422-6115
www.stevericks.com
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From stevericksmusic at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 01:58:49 2010
From: stevericksmusic at gmail.com (Steven Ricks)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 23:58:49 -0700
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <4A13AB34-AF9C-4BA3-B092-3A3114709BF9@batuhanbozkurt.com>
References: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>
	<7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>
	<686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A13AB34-AF9C-4BA3-B092-3A3114709BF9@batuhanbozkurt.com>
Message-ID: <7a0414351002232258y17e9f639j7d41da675151251@mail.gmail.com>

The artist I was think of was Twerk--and while it was an earlier interview,
it looks like he might discuss some of the same issues in this intervew:

http://www.audibleoddities.com/twerk/?p=219

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:11 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt <batuhan at batuhanbozkurt.com
> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> > I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
> > music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
> > involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
> > extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
> > incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
> > paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
> > create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
> > need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
> > yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
> > electronic music.
>
> I don't really think that this is a fair way of looking at this. Writing
> intricate yet functional things for traditional instruments require years of
> training. Playing those instruments also require a massive amount of
> training. Why should composing for and playing with electronic instruments
> be different in this sense? It is hard for me to play the violin for
> example, because I am not trained to play that instrument. But I can write
> some music for violin because I worked on that stuff. It took some years of
> my life to do that. It would be extremely frustrating for me to do it
> properly, otherwise. Same goes with electronic instruments. After all, they
> don't generate musically interesting sounds that fit into a particular
> composer's intents, automagically.
>
> > These answers are interesting, and do suggest one possible approach,
> > which seems to be to let the electronic timbres grow out of the
> > timbres being produced by the acoustic instruments.
> >
> > However, I don't seem to be able to find any concrete information on
> > how, for instance, I might use CSound or other software to emulate
> > such techniques...
>
> I'd suggest an environment agnostic learning approach to sound synthesis
> first. Tools/Instruments like CSound usually assume that you already know
> with what "recipe" you are going to create the sounds you have in mind, and
> they provide the necessary tools for you to achieve them. The Computer Music
> Tutorial by Curtis Roads, although quite thorough, will be an excellent
> resource if you are serious about getting your hands dirty with electronic
> sound generation and manipulation in general. You can experiment with the
> concepts as you go, in an environment of your own choosing. You may start by
> trying things out with regular software synthesizers and work your way up
> from there by building your own sound synthesizers (if need arises) in a
> musical programming language (with a clear image in mind, of what to
> expect).
>
> Since Max, PD and CSound are mentioned, I should add, you may want to look
> into SuperCollider too. But please be aware that these environments are only
> tools/instruments and being able to create interesting experiences with them
> (easily and comfortably) is not  something that will happen overnight. :)
>
> Best,
> Batuhan Bozkurt
> /* http://www.earslap.com */
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2010, at 11:22 PM, David Powers wrote:
>
> > These answers are interesting, and do suggest one possible approach,
> > which seems to be to let the electronic timbres grow out of the
> > timbres being produced by the acoustic instruments.
> >
> > However, I don't seem to be able to find any concrete information on
> > how, for instance, I might use CSound or other software to emulate
> > such techniques...
> >
> > CSound is itself a monster of a program to learn, so anything that
> > might point me towards useful techniques might be useful--I can
> > produce basic sounds but I'm not fully sure how to create a workflow
> > and actually compose with it. Creating instruments that respond to
> > MIDI does look somewhat promising, and I suppose I could go as far as
> > creating an instrument for each electronic sound I wish to create, and
> > simply trigger as needed.
> >
> > I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
> > music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
> > involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
> > extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
> > incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
> > paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
> > create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
> > need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
> > yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
> > electronic music.
> >
> > One side note, is that for the first run of things, I'm only making a
> > recording... so I don't need things to work in realtime per-se, they
> > just need to be able to be aligned with a score. I will also probably
> > use MIDI for the piano part, since I don't have the means to record a
> > proper piano right now, so that gives me some additional flexibility.
> > I'm hoping what I learn could eventually be extended to actual live
> > performances with acoustic instruments, but I don't have to get all
> > the way there in one leap.
> >
> > I currently don't have any way to access either JSTOR to get articles,
> > or the scores of the works mentioned, although the Avant Garde Project
> > at least has Subotnick audio files, which I'm downloading this very
> > minute.
> >
> > It is unfortunate that despite the supposed open access to information
> > provide by the internet, much of the good stuff is locked away and
> > only accessible to university students and faculty, unless one has a
> > fair amount of disposable income. In the last year this problem has
> > been hampering me more and more, to the point where I am considering
> > enrolling in university courses simply to afford access to research...
> >
> > ~David
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Steven Ricks <stevericksmusic at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I think Mario Davidovsky's Synchronisms are essential pieces if you're
> >> interested in a "traditional" approach to composing for traditional
> Western
> >> acoustic instruments plus electronics.  All of them include scores which
> >> become increasingly more specific in terms of notating what the
> electronics
> >> are doing and how the live instrument syncs up with them.
> >>
> >> I apologize if I've misunderstood your question and these works are
> known to
> >> you.  Anyway, in an an interview with guitarist David Starobin,
> Davidovsky
> >> says something to the effect of wanting to imbed the sound of the guitar
> (or
> >> whatever instrument he's dealing with) into the electronics, and vice
> >> versa.  It's an approach in which the sounds/timbres of the two mediums
> are
> >> meant to dovetail and be closely related, at least much of the time.
> >>
> >> SR
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Randal Davis <
> randal_davis at operamail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> David,
> >>>
> >>> You might start by looking into Morton Subotnick's "ghost scores."  You
> >>> can find some program and technical notes on his website, recordings
> and
> >>> additional texts at the Avant Garde Project site, and a good article
> from
> >>> some years back in The Musical Quarterly (requires JSTOR access).
> >>>
> >>> I'd look particularly closely at the works in The Double Life of
> >>> Amphibians, which include works for solo cello, solo voice and string
> >>> quartet (all with electronic "ghost scores."
> >>>
> >>> RD
> >>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "David Powers" <cyborgk at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: microsound at microsound.org
> >>>> Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
> >>>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:03:26 -0600
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Greetings,
> >>>>
> >>>> For a new project (actually Pi Day), I have decided to take a
> >>>> different route and compose my piece in a more traditional manner,
> >>>> basically as a piano piece, and then add in electronic elements, some
> >>>> of which will probably be based on probabilities and some more or less
> >>>> notated.
> >>>>
> >>>> So with that being said, in my mind the great weakness in the classic
> >>>> books for electronic techniques that I've read ('Formalized Music' and
> >>>> 'Microsound') is that, in my opinion, they fail to bridge the gap
> >>>> between the world of composing as I know it, and new ways of
> >>>> approaching sound. I am not interested in discarding traditional
> >>>> techniques but rather extending them.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, I would be interested to hear from composers who work with
> >>>> traditional musical materials and instruments alongside electronic,
> >>>> especially those who use "normal" notation, manipulate cells and
> >>>> motives, and do not rely on improvisation for the performance of the
> >>>> electronic elements. How do you approach the use of electronics in
> >>>> your work? How do you bridge the gap in sound between the electronic
> >>>> and acoustic elements in your piece? Any software and technology that
> >>>> you find to be especially helpful? If you work on micro timescales,
> >>>> how do you bridge the gap between that timescale and the more normal
> >>>> timescale of notated music?
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm considering finally digging into CSound to do the current piece;
> >>>> the other options that occur to me offhand are ChucK, for the Physical
> >>>> Modeling code, and PD, which I know reasonably well but usually only
> >>>> use to generate data which I send via MIDI or OSC elsewhere. Any
> >>>> advice would be appreciated.
> >>>>
> >>>> ~David
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> microsound mailing list
> >>>> microsound at microsound.org
> >>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
> >>> Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
> >>>
> >>> Powered by Outblaze
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> microsound mailing list
> >>> microsound at microsound.org
> >>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Steven Ricks
> >> Composer
> >> Associate Professor, BYU School of Music
> >> (801) 422-6115
> >> www.stevericks.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> microsound mailing list
> >> microsound at microsound.org
> >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > microsound mailing list
> > microsound at microsound.org
> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
> _______________________________________________
> microsound mailing list
> microsound at microsound.org
> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>



-- 
Steven Ricks
Composer
Associate Professor, BYU School of Music
(801) 422-6115
www.stevericks.com
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From greghpr at yahoo.com.au  Wed Feb 24 05:26:54 2010
From: greghpr at yahoo.com.au (greg hooper)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 02:26:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <7a0414351002232258y17e9f639j7d41da675151251@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>
	<7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>
	<686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A13AB34-AF9C-4BA3-B092-3A3114709BF9@batuhanbozkurt.com>
	<7a0414351002232258y17e9f639j7d41da675151251@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <563240.91303.qm@web45307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

when you write for a performer you specify very little really - the performer and you share a history which enables the perfomer to realise the score with an enormous imput from their years of training. The score provides an opportunity for the expression of the musical expertise of the performer.
With a computer/electronics performance, typically there is little or no history within the computer/software. There is no musical expertise. You as the composer have to provide that. Of course an environment like cSound contains within it the expertise of many people, but as a perfomer (or interpreter) cSound has no expertise at all, no ability to intuit or extrapolate, or invent or add. No shared history with the composer at all.  It's completely inert. Hence the composer has to specify to excrutiating detail if the composer wants the electronics to mirror the expressive variability of the human perfomer. That is an enormous undertaking that is in my opinion not worth the effort - other languages and approaches to composition are more fruitful - eg Luke Harrald's use of the prisoner's dilemma to simulate performer interaction.
An alternative is to use signal processing on actual performance data -  much more tractable (again only expressing my view)

 www.greg-hooper.com




________________________________
From: Steven Ricks <stevericksmusic at gmail.com>
To: microsound at microsound.org
Sent: Wed, 24 February, 2010 4:58:49 PM
Subject: Re: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques

The artist I was think of was Twerk--and while it was an earlier interview, it looks like he might discuss some of the same issues in this intervew:

http://www.audibleoddities.com/twerk/?p=219


On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 7:11 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt <batuhan at batuhanbozkurt.com> wrote:

>Hi David,
>
>
>>> I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
>>> music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
>>> involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
>>> extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
>>> incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
>>> paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
>>> create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
>>> need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
>>> yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
>>> electronic music.
>
>I don't really think that this is a fair way of looking at this. Writing intricate yet functional things for traditional instruments require years of training. Playing those instruments also require a massive amount of training. Why should composing for and playing with electronic instruments be different in this sense? It is hard for me to play the violin for example, because I am not trained to play that instrument. But I can write some music for violin because I worked on that stuff. It took some years of my life to do that. It would be extremely frustrating for me to do it properly, otherwise. Same goes with electronic instruments. After all, they don't generate musically interesting sounds that fit into a particular composer's intents, automagically.
>
>
>>> These answers are interesting, and do suggest one possible approach,
>>> which seems to be to let the electronic timbres grow out of the
>>> timbres being produced by the acoustic instruments.
>>>
>>> However, I don't seem to be able to find any concrete information on
>>> how, for instance, I might use CSound or other software to emulate
>>> such techniques...
>
>I'd suggest an environment agnostic learning approach to sound synthesis first. Tools/Instruments like CSound usually assume that you already know with what "recipe" you are going to create the sounds you have in mind, and they provide the necessary tools for you to achieve them. The Computer Music Tutorial by Curtis Roads, although quite thorough, will be an excellent resource if you are serious about getting your hands dirty with electronic sound generation and manipulation in general. You can experiment with the concepts as you go, in an environment of your own choosing. You may start by trying things out with regular software synthesizers and work your way up from there by building your own sound synthesizers (if need arises) in a musical programming language (with a clear image in mind, of what to expect).
>
>>Since Max, PD and CSound are mentioned, I should add, you may want to look into SuperCollider too. But please be aware that these environments are only tools/instruments and being able to create interesting experiences with them (easily and comfortably) is not  something that will happen overnight. :)
>
>>Best,
>Batuhan Bozkurt
>>/* http://www.earslap.com */
>
>
>
>
>
>>On Feb 23, 2010, at 11:22 PM, David Powers wrote:
>
>>> These answers are interesting, and do suggest one possible approach,
>>> which seems to be to let the electronic timbres grow out of the
>>> timbres being produced by the acoustic instruments.
>>>
>>> However, I don't seem to be able to find any concrete information on
>>> how, for instance, I might use CSound or other software to emulate
>>> such techniques...
>>>
>>> CSound is itself a monster of a program to learn, so anything that
>>> might point me towards useful techniques might be useful--I can
>>> produce basic sounds but I'm not fully sure how to create a workflow
>>> and actually compose with it. Creating instruments that respond to
>>> MIDI does look somewhat promising, and I suppose I could go as far as
>>> creating an instrument for each electronic sound I wish to create, and
>>> simply trigger as needed.
>>>
>>> I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
>>> music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
>>> involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
>>> extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
>>> incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
>>> paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
>>> create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
>>> need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
>>> yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
>>> electronic music.
>>>
>>> One side note, is that for the first run of things, I'm only making a
>>> recording... so I don't need things to work in realtime per-se, they
>>> just need to be able to be aligned with a score. I will also probably
>>> use MIDI for the piano part, since I don't have the means to record a
>>> proper piano right now, so that gives me some additional flexibility.
>>> I'm hoping what I learn could eventually be extended to actual live
>>> performances with acoustic instruments, but I don't have to get all
>>> the way there in one leap.
>>>
>>> I currently don't have any way to access either JSTOR to get articles,
>>> or the scores of the works mentioned, although the Avant Garde Project
>>> at least has Subotnick audio files, which I'm downloading this very
>>> minute.
>>>
>>> It is unfortunate that despite the supposed open access to information
>>> provide by the internet, much of the good stuff is locked away and
>>> only accessible to university students and faculty, unless one has a
>>> fair amount of disposable income. In the last year this problem has
>>> been hampering me more and more, to the point where I am considering
>>> enrolling in university courses simply to afford access to research...
>>>
>>> ~David
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Steven Ricks <stevericksmusic at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I think Mario Davidovsky's Synchronisms are essential pieces if you're
>>>> interested in a "traditional" approach to composing for traditional Western
>>>> acoustic instruments plus electronics.  All of them include scores which
>>>> become increasingly more specific in terms of notating what the electronics
>>>> are doing and how the live instrument syncs up with them.
>>>>
>>>> I apologize if I've misunderstood your question and these works are known to
>>>> you.  Anyway, in an an interview with guitarist David Starobin, Davidovsky
>>>> says something to the effect of wanting to imbed the sound of the guitar (or
>>>> whatever instrument he's dealing with) into the electronics, and vice
>>>> versa.  It's an approach in which the sounds/timbres of the two mediums are
>>>> meant to dovetail and be closely related, at least much of the time.
>>>>
>>>> SR
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Randal Davis <randal_davis at operamail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> David,
>>>>>
>>>>> You might start by looking into Morton Subotnick's "ghost scores."  You
>>>>> can find some program and technical notes on his website, recordings and
>>>>> additional texts at the Avant Garde Project site, and a good article from
>>>>> some years back in The Musical Quarterly (requires JSTOR access).
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd look particularly closely at the works in The Double Life of
>>>>> Amphibians, which include works for solo cello, solo voice and string
>>>>> quartet (all with electronic "ghost scores."
>>>>>
>>>>> RD
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "David Powers" <cyborgk at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: microsound at microsound.org
>>>>>> Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
>>>>>> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:03:26 -0600
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a new project (actually Pi Day), I have decided to take a
>>>>>> different route and compose my piece in a more traditional manner,
>>>>>> basically as a piano piece, and then add in electronic elements, some
>>>>>> of which will probably be based on probabilities and some more or less
>>>>>> notated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So with that being said, in my mind the great weakness in the classic
>>>>>> books for electronic techniques that I've read ('Formalized Music' and
>>>>>> 'Microsound') is that, in my opinion, they fail to bridge the gap
>>>>>> between the world of composing as I know it, and new ways of
>>>>>> approaching sound. I am not interested in discarding traditional
>>>>>> techniques but rather extending them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, I would be interested to hear from composers who work with
>>>>>> traditional musical materials and instruments alongside electronic,
>>>>>> especially those who use "normal" notation, manipulate cells and
>>>>>> motives, and do not rely on improvisation for the performance of the
>>>>>> electronic elements. How do you approach the use of electronics in
>>>>>> your work? How do you bridge the gap in sound between the electronic
>>>>>> and acoustic elements in your piece? Any software and technology that
>>>>>> you find to be especially helpful? If you work on micro timescales,
>>>>>> how do you bridge the gap between that timescale and the more normal
>>>>>> timescale of notated music?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm considering finally digging into CSound to do the current piece;
>>>>>> the other options that occur to me offhand are ChucK, for the Physical
>>>>>> Modeling code, and PD, which I know reasonably well but usually only
>>>>>> use to generate data which I send via MIDI or OSC elsewhere. Any
>>>>>> advice would be appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~David
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
>>>>> Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Powered by Outblaze
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Steven Ricks
>>>> Composer
>>>> Associate Professor, BYU School of Music
>>>> (801) 422-6115
>>>> www.stevericks.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> microsound mailing list
>>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> microsound mailing list
>>> microsound at microsound.org
>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>microsound mailing list
>microsound at microsound.org
>http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound
>


-- 
Steven Ricks
Composer
Associate Professor, BYU School of Music
(801) 422-6115
www.stevericks.com



      
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From lsutton at libero.it  Wed Feb 24 06:04:20 2010
From: lsutton at libero.it (Lorenzo)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:04:20 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <4A13AB34-AF9C-4BA3-B092-3A3114709BF9@batuhanbozkurt.com>
References: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>	<7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>	<686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A13AB34-AF9C-4BA3-B092-3A3114709BF9@batuhanbozkurt.com>
Message-ID: <4B8507B4.8070105@libero.it>

Hi again,..


>> I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
>> music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
>> involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
>> extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
>> incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
>> paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
>> create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
>> need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
>> yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
>> electronic music.
>>      
> I don't really think that this is a fair way of looking at this. Writing intricate yet functional things for traditional instruments require years of training. Playing those instruments also require a massive amount of training. Why should composing for and playing with electronic instruments be different in this sense? It is hard for me to play the violin for example, because I am not trained to play that instrument. But I can write some music for violin because I worked on that stuff. It took some years of my life to do that. It would be extremely frustrating for me to do it properly, otherwise. Same goes with electronic instruments. After all, they don't generate musically interesting sounds that fit into a particular composer's intents, automagically.
>    
I agree on that, any art needs mastering and electronic music is no 
exception, and I still consider myself more of a learner at this stage.
>> These answers are interesting, and do suggest one possible approach,
>> which seems to be to let the electronic timbres grow out of the
>> timbres being produced by the acoustic instruments.
>>
>> However, I don't seem to be able to find any concrete information on
>> how, for instance, I might use CSound or other software to emulate
>> such techniques...
>>      
> I'd suggest an environment agnostic learning approach to sound synthesis first. Tools/Instruments like CSound usually assume that you already know with what "recipe" you are going to create the sounds you have in mind, and they provide the necessary tools for you to achieve them. The Computer Music Tutorial by Curtis Roads, although quite thorough, will be an excellent resource if you are serious about getting your hands dirty with electronic sound generation and manipulation in general. You can experiment with the concepts as you go, in an environment of your own choosing. You may start by trying things out with regular software synthesizers and work your way up from there by building your own sound synthesizers (if need arises) in a musical programming language (with a clear image in mind, of what to expect).
>
> Since Max, PD and CSound are mentioned, I should add, you may want to look into SuperCollider too. But please be aware that these environments are only tools/instruments and being able to create interesting experiences with them (easily and comfortably) is not  something that will happen overnight. :)
>    
But I guess one has to chose a tool to get hands dirty :) otherwise 
everything is very theoretical, I mean one can read 100 tutorials on FM 
synthesis 'in theory' but /*/listening* to it is something different... 
with training one can imagine how some synthesis algorithm will probably 
sound, just like the trained composer can hear in 'one's head' how a 
part will sound by just reading the score, but again that needs training.

Best,
Lorenzo
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From lsutton at libero.it  Wed Feb 24 06:06:34 2010
From: lsutton at libero.it (Lorenzo)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:06:34 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <4B84583C.4010309@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B84583C.4010309@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <4B85083A.8000102@libero.it>


>> As for tools, I'm a linux guy now and used rosegarden+lilypond for 
>> writing the piano score (after taking some sketches on paper while at 
>> a real piano) and inkscape for the electronic part.
> Lorenzo
> thanks for posting this!
> don't forget that GIMP takes MIDI input which might yield some 
> interesting applications in the creation of graphic scores :)
> KIM

Well I wasn't aware of GIMP being controllable via MIDI.. one can 
probably control about anything with MIDI, I guess that's why even with 
it's limitations and many detractors it's still around and widely used 
after 30 years.

Lorenzo

From lsutton at libero.it  Wed Feb 24 06:06:34 2010
From: lsutton at libero.it (Lorenzo)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:06:34 +0100
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <4B84583C.4010309@anechoicmedia.com>
References: <4B84583C.4010309@anechoicmedia.com>
Message-ID: <4B85083A.8000102@libero.it>


>> As for tools, I'm a linux guy now and used rosegarden+lilypond for 
>> writing the piano score (after taking some sketches on paper while at 
>> a real piano) and inkscape for the electronic part.
> Lorenzo
> thanks for posting this!
> don't forget that GIMP takes MIDI input which might yield some 
> interesting applications in the creation of graphic scores :)
> KIM

Well I wasn't aware of GIMP being controllable via MIDI.. one can 
probably control about anything with MIDI, I guess that's why even with 
it's limitations and many detractors it's still around and widely used 
after 30 years.

Lorenzo

From kim at anechoicmedia.com  Wed Feb 24 10:33:22 2010
From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 07:33:22 -0800
Subject: [microsound] digest subs
Message-ID: <4B8546C2.2040403@anechoicmedia.com>

please be more careful when replying to a post in a digest
some people hit reply
and end up copying the entire contents of the digest into their response
this is a real pita for those of us who read the digest
thanks,
the mgmt

From cyborgk at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 11:53:17 2010
From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 10:53:17 -0600
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <4A13AB34-AF9C-4BA3-B092-3A3114709BF9@batuhanbozkurt.com>
References: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>
	<7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>
	<686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A13AB34-AF9C-4BA3-B092-3A3114709BF9@batuhanbozkurt.com>
Message-ID: <686ba4e41002240853y4de0022cl1b63cc00bea32d1e@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt
<batuhan at batuhanbozkurt.com> wrote:
> Hi David,
>
>> I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
>> music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
>> involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
>> extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
>> incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
>> paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
>> create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
>> need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
>> yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
>> electronic music.
>
> I don't really think that this is a fair way of looking at this. Writing intricate yet functional things for traditional instruments require years of training. Playing those instruments also require a massive amount of training. Why should composing for and playing with electronic instruments be different in this sense? It is hard for me to play the violin for example, because I am not trained to play that instrument. But I can write some music for violin because I worked on that stuff. It took some years of my life to do that. It would be extremely frustrating for me to do it properly, otherwise. Same goes with electronic instruments. After all, they don't generate musically interesting sounds that fit into a particular composer's intents, automagically.
>

That's a good point... I would say, though, that pop music and
electronic dance producers do get lots of cool automagical tools, so
the real issue is that:
1. Composers aren't really working together towards common goals and
so their needs are highly divergent and
2. The market for composers is simply too small for anything to get
created that caters to the needs of serious composers.

I wonder though, if the musical problems are REALLY so diverse that
composers couldn't work together to create common tools that simplify
some of the grunt work.

>
> I'd suggest an environment agnostic learning approach to sound synthesis first.

Well, I already have done synthesis for many years... the problem is,
as another poster mentioned, how to make the electronics sound
"organic" and have the same type of timbral complexity as the acoustic
sounds... I know Pure Data pretty well actually, though I haven't done
a lot of signal processing with it. The reason I was leaning towards
CSound is that it has some spectral processing possibilities that are
new to me and look promising, and it also has some nice granular
generators... These kinds of operations are rather intensive and
aren't easy to prototype quickly in PD in my experience.

Generally, the difficulty I'm having is connecting my knowledge of
acoustic instruments and composition with my knowledge of synthesis,
so that the electronics don't just sound like some arbitrary crap
stuck on top of the acoustic sounds... I know of very little
information on how to MUSICALLY treat electronic possibilities, almost
everything I've read is purely technical and assumes you will figure
out the musical side on its own. This is a significant problem in my
mind, precisely because it isn't so easy to make digital sounds be
really "musical" outside of more pop genres like minimal house and
techno or ambient.

~David

From jhopkins at tech-no-mad.net  Wed Feb 24 12:21:04 2010
From: jhopkins at tech-no-mad.net (John Hopkins)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:21:04 -0600
Subject: [microsound] archive.org query
Message-ID: <4B856000.1040801@tech-no-mad.net>

Hei folks -- I'm checking around if anyone has a personal connection with the
archive.org people: as a friend of mine has a proposal to make to them for
collaboration, email me off list if you do...

THanks!

John

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
John Hopkins
University of Technology Sydney
FASS AU/US/IS
Centre for Media Arts Innovation
http://neoscenes.net/
http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/
http://www.neoscenes.net/travelog/weblog.php
chazhop at gmail.com
jhopkins at neoscenes.net
skype: chazhopkins
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


From zipzappoozoo at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:27:03 2010
From: zipzappoozoo at gmail.com (Christopher Bailey)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:27:03 -0500
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
Message-ID: <44065c631002240927j5b21d6a7vd7f902772bc01cd8@mail.gmail.com>

Computer-music takes forever, no way around that one.  Much much harder than
writing for instruments.

I've taken the approach of creating "virtual instruments"---I don't know
enough about physical models and what-not to create one of them, but I do
know that if you create an instrument that has timbral aspects/parameters
that are constantly changing in interesting ways, you'll get a sound that
you can learn to compose for, and that will hold the ear, just like any
"real" instrument. Sometimes what happens "internally" in a "note" produced
by one of these instruments is 'unnatural', but the important thing is that
it holds interest.  Sometimes I come up with ideas for these instruments
literally by looking up random words in the dictionary and
free-associating.  For example, one instrument worked like this:  I started
with a bank of "dirty" guitar samples (individual notes from recordings of
music by Davidovsky, Ferneyhough, etc.).  During the "decay" of the note, I
use granular synthesis to delay the decay arbitrarily, and the 'decay' (or
not), alternates with FM-generated sound.  So the end result is this weird,
alien, mutating bubble-instrument.  Very fun.   I came up with other
instruments that do other weird things.

So you don't need to know too much math.  Just think outside the box.

But it does take programming.  My goal was, I could write a score where I
say, "Play Bb at FF for 3 seconds,  with an SFpp attack."  Then my programs
would write out Csound scores (actually CMIX,  very similar language), that
would 'realize' this note.  So my virtual instrument programs essentially
take the place of all of those years of training that a violinist has.
Admittedly, my instruments aren't as elegant, but raw-ness is something I
can work with, and am interested in, as a composer.

Christopher Bailey
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From noisesmith at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 12:42:04 2010
From: noisesmith at gmail.com (Justin Glenn Smith)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:42:04 -0800
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <686ba4e41002240853y4de0022cl1b63cc00bea32d1e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20100223193756.E863DCBEA8@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com>	<7a0414351002231208t15e212f3r230cafdd54871527@mail.gmail.com>	<686ba4e41002231322j55da5ea0h328039c61e07350@mail.gmail.com>	<4A13AB34-AF9C-4BA3-B092-3A3114709BF9@batuhanbozkurt.com>
	<686ba4e41002240853y4de0022cl1b63cc00bea32d1e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4B8564EC.3000302@gmail.com>

David Powers wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Batuhan Bozkurt
> <batuhan at batuhanbozkurt.com> wrote:
>> Hi David,
>>
>>> I sometimes feel like despite all the advances done with electronic
>>> music tools, it is extremely time consuming to do anything nontrivial,
>>> involving many hours of set up; whereas I can write something
>>> extremely intricate for, say, violin and piano, and get the most
>>> incredible palette of sounds by writing a few notes on a piece of
>>> paper. I don't understand why it should be so inherently hard to
>>> create anything "musical" with electronic means??? I don't feel the
>>> need to build my own piano and violin to write for piano and violin,
>>> yet I feel like that is what I'm being required to do to compose
>>> electronic music.
>> I don't really think that this is a fair way of looking at this. Writing intricate yet functional things for traditional instruments require years of training. Playing those instruments also require a massive amount of training. Why should composing for and playing with electronic instruments be different in this sense? It is hard for me to play the violin for example, because I am not trained to play that instrument. But I can write some music for violin because I worked on that stuff. It took some years of my life to do that. It would be extremely frustrating for me to do it properly, otherwise. Same goes with electronic instruments. After all, they don't generate musically interesting sounds that fit into a particular composer's intents, automagically.
>>
> 
> That's a good point... I would say, though, that pop music and
> electronic dance producers do get lots of cool automagical tools, so
> the real issue is that:
> 1. Composers aren't really working together towards common goals and
> so their needs are highly divergent and
> 2. The market for composers is simply too small for anything to get
> created that caters to the needs of serious composers.
> 
> I wonder though, if the musical problems are REALLY so diverse that
> composers couldn't work together to create common tools that simplify
> some of the grunt work.
> 
>> I'd suggest an environment agnostic learning approach to sound synthesis first.
> 
> Well, I already have done synthesis for many years... the problem is,
> as another poster mentioned, how to make the electronics sound
> "organic" and have the same type of timbral complexity as the acoustic
> sounds... I know Pure Data pretty well actually, though I haven't done
> a lot of signal processing with it. The reason I was leaning towards
> CSound is that it has some spectral processing possibilities that are
> new to me and look promising, and it also has some nice granular
> generators... These kinds of operations are rather intensive and
> aren't easy to prototype quickly in PD in my experience.
> 
> Generally, the difficulty I'm having is connecting my knowledge of
> acoustic instruments and composition with my knowledge of synthesis,
> so that the electronics don't just sound like some arbitrary crap
> stuck on top of the acoustic sounds... I know of very little
> information on how to MUSICALLY treat electronic possibilities, almost
> everything I've read is purely technical and assumes you will figure
> out the musical side on its own. This is a significant problem in my
> mind, precisely because it isn't so easy to make digital sounds be
> really "musical" outside of more pop genres like minimal house and
> techno or ambient.
> 

Part of the problem, I think, is that you are reifying musicality here. When those pop folks started using electronic sound sources those sounds were heard differently than they are today. People saw techno and ambient in the early years as cold, threatening, detached, inhuman. Now they are more likely than before to see it as lively, exuberant, joyous, contemplative, relaxing. The sounds have not changed so much as the familiarity of sounds to the audience; that familiarity is what lead to the sounds becoming musical ones. Thus the fetishization of particular familiar early pieces of equipment like the 808 drum machine and moog synths.

In order to MUSICALLY treat electronic possibilities, I think that it is necessary to find out what music becomes in the face of the electronic possibilities - treating "musical" as a platonic ideal that precedes any of your tools will lead to a series of inadequate and disappointing tools, and flies in the face of the history of music - historically technology changes art, not visa versa.


From greghpr at yahoo.com.au  Wed Feb 24 12:52:44 2010
From: greghpr at yahoo.com.au (greg hooper)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 09:52:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [microsound] Electroacoustic techniques
In-Reply-To: <686ba4e41002221603r2fbcbf2dr563c21bc72d4a69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <686ba4e41002221603r2fbcbf2dr563c21bc72d4a69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <240686.22587.qm@web45305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I guess one of the issues is the scope of your vision for the piece - at the moment the way you've expressed it is  mainly as a technical challenge (how do I incorporate electronics) and not an aesthetic/artistic one. (apologies if you've expanded on this and I've missed it)
But without further constraints on the goals of the piece it is going to be very hard to pin down a technical approach. Which leads to - what do you want to electronics to do aesthetically?


Gregwww.greg-hooper.com


      
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From dfkettle at gmail.com  Fri Feb 26 13:00:18 2010
From: dfkettle at gmail.com (David)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 13:00:18 -0500
Subject: [microsound] "Tiny ear listens to hidden worlds"
Message-ID: <ca74b7061002261000v718aed37n9e7aea09863e538e@mail.gmail.com>

This will give a whole new meaning to the term "microsound":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8529232.stm

"The micro-ear makes it possible to listen to a flagella whipping around"

David.

From technohead3d at googlemail.com  Fri Feb 26 19:20:46 2010
From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis)
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:20:46 +0000
Subject: [microsound] kymophilia
Message-ID: <5badef3b1002261620t300417a0pe6002972d8f1b70c@mail.gmail.com>

Kymophilia: Abnormal affection towards waves or wave-like motions.

~

"Is the realisation and admission of the potential wrongness and
irrationality of your kymophilia more harmonious than the beautiful music of
the waves you admired so much?"
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