From mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es Wed Dec 1 15:36:54 2010 From: mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es (Jaime Munarriz Ortiz) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 21:36:54 +0100 Subject: [microsound] puredata control book Message-ID: <4CF6B1E6.4020504@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es> I love the data flow inside Pd / Max, I mean the pulses and triggers and algorithmic composing, but most of the tutorials and books focus on the Signal Modelling part, as Puckette's excellent book. Does anybody know about any good book or tutorial on the control part of PureData / Max ? From davide.oliveri at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 14:32:15 2010 From: davide.oliveri at gmail.com (Davide Oliveri) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 20:32:15 +0100 Subject: [microsound] video and surround Message-ID: Hi ! I wonder if you know any video-artists that use surround sound in their works. I'm writing my final thesis about the importance of sound in audiovisuals and i wouldn't like to miss such interesting thing, but i had no chance to find something on the web... Thanks in advance. Davide -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at maxviel.it Thu Dec 2 14:50:21 2010 From: mail at maxviel.it (Massimiliano Viel) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 20:50:21 +0100 Subject: [microsound] video and surround In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8139A5B2-678F-4F3E-9ACF-98A91E209FF0@maxviel.it> Check the OPTOFONICA release for Line, it is an anthology devoted to surround sound+ video... I realized the sound for the Otolab's track Massimiliano Il giorno 02/dic/2010, alle ore 20.32, Davide Oliveri ha scritto: > Hi ! > > I wonder if you know any video-artists that use surround sound in their works. > > I'm writing my final thesis about the importance of sound in audiovisuals > and i wouldn't like to miss such interesting thing, but i had no chance to find something on the web... > > Thanks in advance. > > Davide __________________________________ M a s s i m i l i a n o V i e l MAIN SITE! -------------> http://www.maxviel.it BLOG! -------> http://maxviel.wordpress.com/ http://www.myspace.com/massimilianoviel http://www.ssim-el.net http://www.otolab.net http://www.sincronie.org __________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdara at email.com Sun Dec 5 06:37:49 2010 From: macdara at email.com (macdara at email.com) Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2010 06:37:49 -0500 Subject: [microsound] Other geophonic projects Message-ID: <8CD6287FA66BE28-840-13CBD@web-mmc-m01.sysops.aol.com> Hi perhaps we could have a general discussion about the relationships between environment/landscape/geography and music. It's something I've been thinkin about a bit. How is our hardware i.e. raw materials for computers related to this kind of geophonic idea? Is there a "computer music". Are computers a very advanced kind of lithophone? One to get us going, http://www.davidfirst.com/krac.html This is a project i found in the Leonardo Music Journal from 2003. It involves using real time data from measurements of "Schumann Resonances" at a research station in Canada. Title of paper is "The Music of the sphere: an investigation into Asymptotic Harmonics, Brainwave entrainment and the earth as a giant bell". I think it opens up interesting questions about our physical relationship with these phenomena. What would the acoustics of these spaces be like if the resulting works had to be performed? There is some very interesting stuff about the harmonic series in a spherical cavity and how it changes so the overtones pile up in different ways, interesting ideas. Mac -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davide.oliveri at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 16:44:31 2010 From: davide.oliveri at gmail.com (Davide Oliveri) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 22:44:31 +0100 Subject: [microsound] video and surround In-Reply-To: <8139A5B2-678F-4F3E-9ACF-98A91E209FF0@maxviel.it> References: <8139A5B2-678F-4F3E-9ACF-98A91E209FF0@maxviel.it> Message-ID: Thank you! ... and is it "simply" surround or you manage ambisonic too ? I wonder if someone used ambisonic with video... 2010/12/2 Massimiliano Viel > Check the OPTOFONICA release for Line, it is an anthology devoted to > surround sound+ video... > I realized the sound for the Otolab's track > > Massimiliano > > Il giorno 02/dic/2010, alle ore 20.32, Davide Oliveri ha scritto: > > Hi ! > > I wonder if you know any video-artists that use surround sound in their > works. > > I'm writing my final thesis about the importance of sound in audiovisuals > and i wouldn't like to miss such interesting thing, but i had no chance to > find something on the web... > > Thanks in advance. > > Davide > > > > > __________________________________ > M a s s i m i l i a n o V i e l > MAIN SITE! -------------> http://www.maxviel.it > *BLOG! -------> http://maxviel.wordpress.com/* > http://www.myspace.com/massimilianoviel > > http://www.ssim-el.net > http://www.otolab.net > http://www.sincronie.org > __________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nacho at discosinvisibles.org Sun Dec 5 17:04:01 2010 From: nacho at discosinvisibles.org (nacho at discosinvisibles.org) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 17:04:01 -0500 Subject: [microsound] puredata control book In-Reply-To: <4CF6B1E6.4020504@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es> References: <4CF6B1E6.4020504@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es> Message-ID: <2056e21473883e01761aec3584ba1752.squirrel@discosinvisibles.org> http://www.pd-tutorial.com/ :) Jose Ignacio Lopez Ramirez-Gaston www.d-i-net.org > I love the data flow inside Pd / Max, I mean the pulses and triggers and > algorithmic composing, but most of the tutorials and books focus on the > Signal Modelling part, as Puckette's excellent book. > Does anybody know about any good book or tutorial on the control part of > PureData / Max ? > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > From davide.oliveri at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 17:10:45 2010 From: davide.oliveri at gmail.com (Davide Oliveri) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 23:10:45 +0100 Subject: [microsound] puredata control book In-Reply-To: <2056e21473883e01761aec3584ba1752.squirrel@discosinvisibles.org> References: <4CF6B1E6.4020504@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es> <2056e21473883e01761aec3584ba1752.squirrel@discosinvisibles.org> Message-ID: ... and you can also look for the Dataflow Tutorials section here -> http://en.flossmanuals.net/PureData/ <- did you try Ctrl+b in PD ? 2010/12/5 > http://www.pd-tutorial.com/ > :) > > Jose Ignacio Lopez Ramirez-Gaston > www.d-i-net.org > > > > I love the data flow inside Pd / Max, I mean the pulses and triggers and > > algorithmic composing, but most of the tutorials and books focus on the > > Signal Modelling part, as Puckette's excellent book. > > Does anybody know about any good book or tutorial on the control part of > > PureData / Max ? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > microsound mailing list > > microsound at microsound.org > > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nacho at discosinvisibles.org Sun Dec 5 17:04:01 2010 From: nacho at discosinvisibles.org (nacho at discosinvisibles.org) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 17:04:01 -0500 Subject: [microsound] puredata control book In-Reply-To: <4CF6B1E6.4020504@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es> References: <4CF6B1E6.4020504@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es> Message-ID: <2056e21473883e01761aec3584ba1752.squirrel@discosinvisibles.org> http://www.pd-tutorial.com/ :) Jose Ignacio Lopez Ramirez-Gaston www.d-i-net.org > I love the data flow inside Pd / Max, I mean the pulses and triggers and > algorithmic composing, but most of the tutorials and books focus on the > Signal Modelling part, as Puckette's excellent book. > Does anybody know about any good book or tutorial on the control part of > PureData / Max ? > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > From mail at maxviel.it Mon Dec 6 05:04:38 2010 From: mail at maxviel.it (Massimiliano Viel) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 11:04:38 +0100 Subject: [microsound] video and surround In-Reply-To: References: <8139A5B2-678F-4F3E-9ACF-98A91E209FF0@maxviel.it> Message-ID: <5CFCB590-E61C-4F3C-AD09-027EB05DCCCF@maxviel.it> It is simply surround... I'd like to work with ambisonic though m Il giorno 05/dic/2010, alle ore 22.44, Davide Oliveri ha scritto: > Thank you! > > ... and is it "simply" surround or you manage ambisonic too ? > > I wonder if someone used ambisonic with video... > > 2010/12/2 Massimiliano Viel > Check the OPTOFONICA release for Line, it is an anthology devoted to surround sound+ video... > I realized the sound for the Otolab's track > > Massimiliano > > Il giorno 02/dic/2010, alle ore 20.32, Davide Oliveri ha scritto: > >> Hi ! >> >> I wonder if you know any video-artists that use surround sound in their works. >> >> I'm writing my final thesis about the importance of sound in audiovisuals >> and i wouldn't like to miss such interesting thing, but i had no chance to find something on the web... >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Davide > > > > __________________________________ > M a s s i m i l i a n o V i e l > MAIN SITE! -------------> http://www.maxviel.it > BLOG! -------> http://maxviel.wordpress.com/ > http://www.myspace.com/massimilianoviel > > http://www.ssim-el.net > http://www.otolab.net > http://www.sincronie.org > __________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hcengar at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 17:04:46 2010 From: hcengar at gmail.com (Hector Centeno) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 17:04:46 -0500 Subject: [microsound] video and surround In-Reply-To: <5CFCB590-E61C-4F3C-AD09-027EB05DCCCF@maxviel.it> References: <8139A5B2-678F-4F3E-9ACF-98A91E209FF0@maxviel.it> <5CFCB590-E61C-4F3C-AD09-027EB05DCCCF@maxviel.it> Message-ID: <005A6AF1-45E2-4E90-9BBE-F62BF915B7D4@gmail.com> I've done ambisonics for video. A short film titled "The Adder's Bite": http://www.hcenteno.net/listen.html#adders The placement of speakers in a movie theatre is not ideal for ambisonics (the back surround channels are sent through groups of speakers across the back corners). The final result when presented at a movie theatre is not as impressive as ambisonics is when played through an ITU 5.1 setup at the studio, but I found that the overall spatial effect is still quite better than standard surround panning. Cheers, Hector On 2010-12-06, at 5:04 AM, Massimiliano Viel wrote: > It is simply surround... I'd like to work with ambisonic though > > m > > Il giorno 05/dic/2010, alle ore 22.44, Davide Oliveri ha scritto: > >> Thank you! >> >> ... and is it "simply" surround or you manage ambisonic too ? >> >> I wonder if someone used ambisonic with video... >> >> 2010/12/2 Massimiliano Viel >> Check the OPTOFONICA release for Line, it is an anthology devoted to surround sound+ video... >> I realized the sound for the Otolab's track >> >> Massimiliano >> >> Il giorno 02/dic/2010, alle ore 20.32, Davide Oliveri ha scritto: >> >>> Hi ! >>> >>> I wonder if you know any video-artists that use surround sound in their works. >>> >>> I'm writing my final thesis about the importance of sound in audiovisuals >>> and i wouldn't like to miss such interesting thing, but i had no chance to find something on the web... >>> >>> Thanks in advance. >>> >>> Davide >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> M a s s i m i l i a n o V i e l >> MAIN SITE! -------------> http://www.maxviel.it >> BLOG! -------> http://maxviel.wordpress.com/ >> http://www.myspace.com/massimilianoviel >> >> http://www.ssim-el.net >> http://www.otolab.net >> http://www.sincronie.org >> __________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thierrybernardgotteland at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 23:18:10 2010 From: thierrybernardgotteland at gmail.com (Thierry Bernard Gotteland) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 11:18:10 +0700 Subject: [microsound] video and surround In-Reply-To: <005A6AF1-45E2-4E90-9BBE-F62BF915B7D4@gmail.com> References: <8139A5B2-678F-4F3E-9ACF-98A91E209FF0@maxviel.it> <5CFCB590-E61C-4F3C-AD09-027EB05DCCCF@maxviel.it> <005A6AF1-45E2-4E90-9BBE-F62BF915B7D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, I produced a video projection & sound 5.1 surround system installation a couple of years ago for an exhibtion @ Le Fresnoy (French National Studio) ask anything if I can help you. I' ve been through Recordings issues to Post-production and Dolby Stereo DVD format preparation. http://tb-g.org http://tbgotteland.tumblr.com/ Best *TBG* On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 5:04 AM, Hector Centeno wrote: > I've done ambisonics for video. A short film titled "The Adder's Bite": > http://www.hcenteno.net/listen.html#adders > > The placement of speakers in a movie theatre is not ideal for ambisonics > (the back surround channels are sent through groups of speakers across the > back corners). The final result when presented at a movie theatre is not as > impressive as ambisonics is when played through an ITU 5.1 setup at the > studio, but I found that the overall spatial effect is still quite better > than standard surround panning. > > Cheers, > > Hector > > > > On 2010-12-06, at 5:04 AM, Massimiliano Viel wrote: > > It is simply surround... I'd like to work with ambisonic though > > m > > Il giorno 05/dic/2010, alle ore 22.44, Davide Oliveri ha scritto: > > Thank you! > > ... and is it "simply" surround or you manage ambisonic too ? > > I wonder if someone used ambisonic with video... > > 2010/12/2 Massimiliano Viel > >> Check the OPTOFONICA release for Line, it is an anthology devoted to >> surround sound+ video... >> I realized the sound for the Otolab's track >> >> Massimiliano >> >> Il giorno 02/dic/2010, alle ore 20.32, Davide Oliveri ha scritto: >> >> Hi ! >> >> I wonder if you know any video-artists that use surround sound in their >> works. >> >> I'm writing my final thesis about the importance of sound in audiovisuals >> and i wouldn't like to miss such interesting thing, but i had no chance to >> find something on the web... >> >> Thanks in advance. >> >> Davide >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> M a s s i m i l i a n o V i e l >> MAIN SITE! -------------> http://www.maxviel.it >> *BLOG! -------> http://maxviel.wordpress.com/* >> http://www.myspace.com/massimilianoviel >> >> http://www.ssim-el.net >> http://www.otolab.net >> http://www.sincronie.org >> __________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> >> > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > -- *K*ind*R*egards *TBG* ---------------------------------------- http://universalport.tumblr.com http://tbgotteland.tumblr.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davide.oliveri at gmail.com Tue Dec 7 04:46:00 2010 From: davide.oliveri at gmail.com (Davide Oliveri) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 10:46:00 +0100 Subject: [microsound] video and surround In-Reply-To: References: <8139A5B2-678F-4F3E-9ACF-98A91E209FF0@maxviel.it> <5CFCB590-E61C-4F3C-AD09-027EB05DCCCF@maxviel.it> <005A6AF1-45E2-4E90-9BBE-F62BF915B7D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello and many thanks for sharing and speaking about your opinion. Did you record ambisonic sound or it's a matter of editing ? And what did you use to edit ? I tried to do something in UHJ about one year ago and I used Max/Msp externals Ambiencode/Ambidecode, but I didn't like the result because I wanted to achieve the effect of "flying" sound over the head and I guess it's not so easy to do with just two channels... You can listen an excerpt of the result here . So one can use ambisonic in surround system and get a better surround effect, it sounds interesting. I wonder if ambisonc is actually used in newest sourround productions. Don't you think that surround could be an "invasion" of the space of the (film/video) audience ? I mean, we see something "over there" but we hear something "here". However i didn't find the sound of "the adder's bite" so present to be considered "here" and i think it's a good thing. By the way, what is the best configuration for the speakers to liste the UHJ format, in front or at side ? Davide Oliveri -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trond.lossius at bek.no Tue Dec 7 14:36:16 2010 From: trond.lossius at bek.no (Trond Lossius) Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2010 20:36:16 +0100 Subject: [microsound] video and surround In-Reply-To: References: <8139A5B2-678F-4F3E-9ACF-98A91E209FF0@maxviel.it> <5CFCB590-E61C-4F3C-AD09-027EB05DCCCF@maxviel.it> <005A6AF1-45E2-4E90-9BBE-F62BF915B7D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5FB55659-5D00-4AF5-BF61-39611F36C116@bek.no> Hi, Bruce Wiggins did a PhD some years ago working on a method to find optimal decoding coefficients for each of the speakers to use when decoding 2nd order ambisonics for ITU 5.1. The thesis is available for download, and should be easy to google for. The SoundField SPS200 microphone is doing ambisonics recordings, and the accompanying VST and AU plugins are able to decode for a number of formats, including 5.1. I've tested it a bit at the studio at BEK, and it works, but my initial impression is that the sound image is fairly unstable once you move outside of the sweet spot. If you were to use video with ambisonics decoded for 5.1 in e.g. a video screening program, I would test this thoroughly in order to have a better idea of how/to what degree it's working. One option might be to use this to create a surrounding backdrop, and then position additional sources using standard DAW surround panning techniques on top of it for more exact locations. I have listend to some of the 6 channel sounds that comes with Logic/SoundTrack/FinalCut that can be used as ambiences in sound design, and it strikes me that they are pulling lots of tricks to make it sound the best. E.g. there is one or more sound recordings "at the bay", with the sound of waves breaking as they hit the quay. This sound actually seems to be made up from 5 totally independent mono channel signals. The result is that water seems to be splashing at all sides, but if you listen more carefully it is actually only splashing at the locations of the speakers. I have used ambisonics in combination with video and other media in several of my installations, e.g. Stages Bodies: http://trondlossius.no/works/29-staged-bodies-2005-06- Here video was rendered in real time using max/Jitter/OpenGL using two projectors. Likewise sound was generated in realtime using Max, and played back using 9 loudspeakers in a kind of horse show formation. Another example is Elektropoesia from 2004 in collaboration with Kurt Ralske. Again a wide panoramic video image, and this time 16 loudspeakers on a line just below the video: http://trondlossius.no/works/17-elektropoesia-2004 One of the limitations (for me) of ambisonics in installations is that it is pretty strict about loudspeaker positioning if it is to work optimal. That might not always be straight forward to combine with how I want or am able to position the speakers in an installation context. So, often I instead end up breaking the rules, but still getting some interesting spatial results. On the other hand Natasha Barrett has found ways of using ambisonics in installations that has used it very efficient. Cheers, Trond On Dec 7, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Davide Oliveri wrote: > Hello and many thanks for sharing and speaking about your opinion. > > Did you record ambisonic sound or it's a matter of editing ? And what did you use to edit ? > > I tried to do something in UHJ about one year ago and I used Max/Msp externals Ambiencode/Ambidecode, > but I didn't like the result because I wanted to achieve the effect of "flying" sound over the head > and I guess it's not so easy to do with just two channels... > > You can listen an excerpt of the result here. > > So one can use ambisonic in surround system and get a better surround effect, it sounds interesting. > I wonder if ambisonc is actually used in newest sourround productions. > > Don't you think that surround could be an "invasion" of the space of the (film/video) audience ? > I mean, we see something "over there" but we hear something "here". > > However i didn't find the sound of "the adder's bite" so present to be considered "here" and i think it's a good thing. > By the way, what is the best configuration for the speakers to liste the UHJ format, in front or at side ? > > > Davide Oliveri > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From davide.oliveri at gmail.com Wed Dec 8 09:51:32 2010 From: davide.oliveri at gmail.com (Davide Oliveri) Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 15:51:32 +0100 Subject: [microsound] video and surround In-Reply-To: <5FB55659-5D00-4AF5-BF61-39611F36C116@bek.no> References: <8139A5B2-678F-4F3E-9ACF-98A91E209FF0@maxviel.it> <5CFCB590-E61C-4F3C-AD09-027EB05DCCCF@maxviel.it> <005A6AF1-45E2-4E90-9BBE-F62BF915B7D4@gmail.com> <5FB55659-5D00-4AF5-BF61-39611F36C116@bek.no> Message-ID: Thank you Trond ! Your informations and opinions are helpful me to write about this subject. I didn't know about Natasha Barret, she seems to work very hard with spatialization. I like the idea of layering loudspeakers to treat the sound like an image, in the Elektropoesia but i preferred Staged Bodies. You said you used Max, may I know if it's with Ambiencode/decode that you generated sound ? Davide Oliveri 2010/12/7 Trond Lossius > Hi, > > Bruce Wiggins did a PhD some years ago working on a method to find optimal > decoding coefficients for each of the speakers to use when decoding 2nd > order ambisonics for ITU 5.1. The thesis is available for download, and > should be easy to google for. > > The SoundField SPS200 microphone is doing ambisonics recordings, and the > accompanying VST and AU plugins are able to decode for a number of formats, > including 5.1. I've tested it a bit at the studio at BEK, and it works, but > my initial impression is that the sound image is fairly unstable once you > move outside of the sweet spot. If you were to use video with ambisonics > decoded for 5.1 in e.g. a video screening program, I would test this > thoroughly in order to have a better idea of how/to what degree it's > working. One option might be to use this to create a surrounding backdrop, > and then position additional sources using standard DAW surround panning > techniques on top of it for more exact locations. > > I have listend to some of the 6 channel sounds that comes with > Logic/SoundTrack/FinalCut that can be used as ambiences in sound design, and > it strikes me that they are pulling lots of tricks to make it sound the > best. E.g. there is one or more sound recordings "at the bay", with the > sound of waves breaking as they hit the quay. This sound actually seems to > be made up from 5 totally independent mono channel signals. The result is > that water seems to be splashing at all sides, but if you listen more > carefully it is actually only splashing at the locations of the speakers. > > I have used ambisonics in combination with video and other media in several > of my installations, e.g. Stages Bodies: > > http://trondlossius.no/works/29-staged-bodies-2005-06- > > Here video was rendered in real time using max/Jitter/OpenGL using two > projectors. Likewise sound was generated in realtime using Max, and played > back using 9 loudspeakers in a kind of horse show formation. > > Another example is Elektropoesia from 2004 in collaboration with Kurt > Ralske. Again a wide panoramic video image, and this time 16 loudspeakers on > a line just below the video: > > http://trondlossius.no/works/17-elektropoesia-2004 > > One of the limitations (for me) of ambisonics in installations is that it > is pretty strict about loudspeaker positioning if it is to work optimal. > That might not always be straight forward to combine with how I want or am > able to position the speakers in an installation context. So, often I > instead end up breaking the rules, but still getting some interesting > spatial results. On the other hand Natasha Barrett has found ways of using > ambisonics in installations that has used it very efficient. > > Cheers, > Trond > > > On Dec 7, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Davide Oliveri wrote: > > > Hello and many thanks for sharing and speaking about your opinion. > > > > Did you record ambisonic sound or it's a matter of editing ? And what did > you use to edit ? > > > > I tried to do something in UHJ about one year ago and I used Max/Msp > externals Ambiencode/Ambidecode, > > but I didn't like the result because I wanted to achieve the effect of > "flying" sound over the head > > and I guess it's not so easy to do with just two channels... > > > > You can listen an excerpt of the result here. > > > > So one can use ambisonic in surround system and get a better surround > effect, it sounds interesting. > > I wonder if ambisonc is actually used in newest sourround productions. > > > > Don't you think that surround could be an "invasion" of the space of the > (film/video) audience ? > > I mean, we see something "over there" but we hear something "here". > > > > However i didn't find the sound of "the adder's bite" so present to be > considered "here" and i think it's a good thing. > > By the way, what is the best configuration for the speakers to liste the > UHJ format, in front or at side ? > > > > > > Davide Oliveri > > > > _______________________________________________ > > microsound mailing list > > microsound at microsound.org > > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gorgo at inbox.ru Thu Dec 9 04:14:15 2010 From: gorgo at inbox.ru (gorgo) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 12:14:15 +0300 Subject: [microsound] Presenting the new gorgo's album Message-ID: Hi everybody! I have the honour to report that a very new 2010 gorgo's album is now available for downloading in .mp3 format on the iTunes Store and Amazon.com! "Once Upon a Time" that's how it's called. 7 instrumental pieces are represented, each one of it's own kind. The spirit of the old days, of ancient time events reveals both in western and oriental sounds. Lots of melodies, emotions and unexpected turns will make the listening process fascinating and absorbing. Inspired by the music of classic art-rock bands such as Camel, Gong, King Crimson, Magma, Gentle Giant and many others this album is an audacious endeavour to unite the classic 70's art with the modern digital sound. Enjoy! And don't forget to visit gorgo on Myspace Music http://www.myspace.com/gorgo.shpak -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sofus at foppa.dk Thu Dec 9 04:54:46 2010 From: sofus at foppa.dk (Sofus Forsberg) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 10:54:46 +0100 Subject: [microsound] Presenting the new gorgo's album In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67BF48C7-1E33-49B8-8602-E3BCAECAE08B@foppa.dk> Hmmm shouldnt this SPAM get posted elsewhere? Den Dec 9, 2010 kl. 10:14 skrev gorgo : > Hi everybody! > > I have the honour to report that a very new 2010 gorgo's album is now available for downloading in .mp3 format on the iTunes Store and Amazon.com! "Once Upon a Time" that's how it's called. > 7 instrumental pieces are represented, each one of it's own kind. The spirit of the old days, of ancient time events reveals both in western and oriental sounds. Lots of melodies, emotions and unexpected turns will make the listening process fascinating and absorbing. > Inspired by the music of classic art-rock bands such as Camel, Gong, King Crimson, Magma, Gentle Giant and many others this album is an audacious endeavour to unite the classic 70's art with the modern digital sound. > > Enjoy! And don't forget to visit gorgo on Myspace Music http://www.myspace.com/gorgo.shpak > > > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From paulo.mouat at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 09:37:25 2010 From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:37:25 +0800 Subject: [microsound] Presenting the new gorgo's album In-Reply-To: <67BF48C7-1E33-49B8-8602-E3BCAECAE08B@foppa.dk> References: <67BF48C7-1E33-49B8-8602-E3BCAECAE08B@foppa.dk> Message-ID: Yes, announcements are to be posted on microsound-announce as is clearly stated in big red letters at http://microsound.org. //p On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Sofus Forsberg wrote: > Hmmm shouldnt this SPAM get posted elsewhere? > > Den Dec 9, 2010 kl. 10:14 skrev gorgo : > > > Hi everybody! > > > > I have the honour to report that a very new 2010 gorgo's album is now > available for downloading in .mp3 format on the iTunes Store and Amazon.com! > "Once Upon a Time" that's how it's called. > > 7 instrumental pieces are represented, each one of it's own kind. The > spirit of the old days, of ancient time events reveals both in western and > oriental sounds. Lots of melodies, emotions and unexpected turns will make > the listening process fascinating and absorbing. > > Inspired by the music of classic art-rock bands such as Camel, Gong, King > Crimson, Magma, Gentle Giant and many others this album is an audacious > endeavour to unite the classic 70's art with the modern digital sound. > > > > Enjoy! And don't forget to visit gorgo on Myspace Music > http://www.myspace.com/gorgo.shpak > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > microsound mailing list > > microsound at microsound.org > > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palace at guero.sr.unh.edu Thu Dec 9 15:47:04 2010 From: palace at guero.sr.unh.edu (Michael Palace) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 15:47:04 -0500 Subject: [microsound] hydrophone and methane sound files Message-ID: <4D014048.4010607@guero.sr.unh.edu> Here are some preliminary files for people to get a start on. They really are poor quality, but I wanted to put something up there. there are two 2 Gb files from tests this summer at a fen in NH. and a bunch of calibration files. Once again. we have lots more from Sweden as well. I will try to put something else up. If people would like to do a microsound project on methane emissions from microorganisms that is great. I defer to others on the group who ahve been better at setting up a microsound project. There are also some pictures of deployment and the hydrophones and collection mechanism at the top for isotope analysis. There is also a wav file of deploying them in the lake in Sweden. Mike From palace at guero.sr.unh.edu Thu Dec 9 15:48:41 2010 From: palace at guero.sr.unh.edu (Michael Palace) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 15:48:41 -0500 Subject: [microsound] multitrack mp3 recorder Message-ID: <4D0140A9.9040608@guero.sr.unh.edu> does anyone know of a multitrack mp3 recorder? Mike From macdara at email.com Thu Dec 9 16:05:39 2010 From: macdara at email.com (macdara at email.com) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 16:05:39 -0500 Subject: [microsound] multitrack mp3 recorder In-Reply-To: <4D0140A9.9040608@guero.sr.unh.edu> References: <4D0140A9.9040608@guero.sr.unh.edu> Message-ID: <8CD65FBF6293AC0-9F4-EDF4@web-mmc-d01.sysops.aol.com> The ZOOM h4 model does 4 track, perhaps this is a little too high end tho -----Original Message----- From: Michael Palace To: microsound at microsound.org Sent: Thu, Dec 9, 2010 8:48 pm Subject: [microsound] multitrack mp3 recorder does anyone know of a multitrack mp3 recorder? Mike _______________________________________________ microsound mailing list microsound at microsound.org http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palace at guero.sr.unh.edu Thu Dec 9 16:21:38 2010 From: palace at guero.sr.unh.edu (Michael Palace) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 16:21:38 -0500 Subject: [microsound] multitrack mp3 recorder In-Reply-To: <8CD65FBF6293AC0-9F4-EDF4@web-mmc-d01.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D0140A9.9040608@guero.sr.unh.edu> <8CD65FBF6293AC0-9F4-EDF4@web-mmc-d01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4D014862.8050008@guero.sr.unh.edu> We use the zoom h4. It is great, but I think it only records wav files in 4 track mode. I may be wrong and will look into this. I am wondering if there is something on a computer. a DAW or something like that On 12/9/2010 4:05 PM, macdara at email.com wrote: > The ZOOM h4 model does 4 track, perhaps this is a little too high end tho > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Palace > To: microsound at microsound.org > Sent: Thu, Dec 9, 2010 8:48 pm > Subject: [microsound] multitrack mp3 recorder > > does anyone know of a multitrack mp3 recorder? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From js0000 at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 16:52:30 2010 From: js0000 at gmail.com (john saylor) Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 16:52:30 -0500 Subject: [microsound] hydrophone and methane sound files In-Reply-To: <4D014048.4010607@guero.sr.unh.edu> References: <4D014048.4010607@guero.sr.unh.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Michael Palace wrote: > Here are some preliminary files for people to get a start on. there was nothing attached to your message- i'm not sure if the list manager allows it, or you hit some attachment ceiling at google, or what. regardless, large files should probably not get passed as email attachments. is there a URL for the files? -- \js : "verbing weirds language." -calvin ?[http://or8.net/~johns/] From kim at anechoicmedia.com Thu Dec 9 19:34:25 2010 From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 16:34:25 -0800 Subject: [microsound] ***my monthly reminder*** Message-ID: <4D017591.6090206@anechoicmedia.com> in case some color blind .microsounders missed the red type splattered on the microsound.org page: this list is *not* meant for announcing anything except new works you want to share with the community and/or get feedback on please please please read the frickin' statement in BOLD RED LETTERS on the same page you happened to sub from? it is all right there is painfully unsubtle text screaming at you in bold red: ***DO NOT POST ANNOUNCEMENTS TO THE MAIN MICROSOUND LIST!!!*** there is another list for this which you can sub to and announce and cross-post to From macdara at email.com Fri Dec 10 12:07:19 2010 From: macdara at email.com (macdara at email.com) Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 12:07:19 -0500 Subject: [microsound] hydrophone and methane sound files In-Reply-To: References: <4D014048.4010607@guero.sr.unh.edu> Message-ID: <8CD66A3D651B184-1CE0-21AD5@web-mmc-m01.sysops.aol.com> Best way for file access if there are difficulties is probably to get Kim or Paulo Mouat to upload them to "projects" repository on microcound.org Macdara -----Original Message----- From: john saylor To: microsound at microsound.org; palace at guero.sr.unh.edu Sent: Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:52 pm Subject: Re: [microsound] hydrophone and methane sound files On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Michael Palace wrote: Here are some preliminary files for people to get a start on. there was nothing attached to your message- i'm not sure if the list anager allows it, or you hit some attachment ceiling at google, or hat. regardless, large files should probably not get passed as email ttachments. is there a URL for the files? -- js : "verbing weirds language." -calvin [http://or8.net/~johns/] ______________________________________________ icrosound mailing list icrosound at microsound.org ttp://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulo.mouat at gmail.com Fri Dec 10 19:50:30 2010 From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 08:50:30 +0800 Subject: [microsound] hydrophone and methane sound files In-Reply-To: <8CD66A3D651B184-1CE0-21AD5@web-mmc-m01.sysops.aol.com> References: <4D014048.4010607@guero.sr.unh.edu> <8CD66A3D651B184-1CE0-21AD5@web-mmc-m01.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Unfortunately there is no way the project repository can hold files that big... //p On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:07 AM, wrote: > Best way for file access if there are difficulties is probably to get Kim > or Paulo Mouat to upload them to "projects" repository on microcound.org > > Macdara > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: john saylor > To: microsound at microsound.org; palace at guero.sr.unh.edu > Sent: Thu, Dec 9, 2010 9:52 pm > Subject: Re: [microsound] hydrophone and methane sound files > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Michael Palace wrote: > > Here are some preliminary files for people to get a start on. > > there was nothing attached to your message- i'm not sure if the list > manager allows it, or you hit some attachment ceiling at google, or > what. regardless, large files should probably not get passed as email > attachments. > > is there a URL for the files? > > -- > \js : "verbing weirds language." -calvin [http://or8.net/~johns/] > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing listmicrosound at microsound.orghttp://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lauramello at gmx.at Sat Dec 11 07:16:31 2010 From: lauramello at gmx.at (Laura Mello) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 13:16:31 +0100 Subject: [microsound] multitrack mp3 recorder, zoom H4 4track? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101211121631.42340@gmx.net> Sorry, but, have you ever really recorded 4 tracks at the same time with the Zoom H4? My experience and my researches in thousands of user forums says that it can only do overdubbing, or one of the 2 stereo sets at a time (internal mic or the 2 xlr-external), but no 4-Track recording, unfortunately... But I would love to know if someone did it, and how... Best Laura Message: 7 Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 16:21:38 -0500 From: Michael Palace To: macdara at email.com Cc: microsound at microsound.org Subject: Re: [microsound] multitrack mp3 recorder Message-ID: <4D014862.8050008 at guero.sr.unh.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" We use the zoom h4. It is great, but I think it only records wav files in 4 track mode. I may be wrong and will look into this. I am wondering if there is something on a computer. a DAW or something like that On 12/9/2010 4:05 PM, macdara at email.com wrote: > The ZOOM h4 model does 4 track, perhaps this is a little too high end tho > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Palace > To: microsound at microsound.org > Sent: Thu, Dec 9, 2010 8:48 pm > Subject: [microsound] multitrack mp3 recorder > > does anyone know of a multitrack mp3 recorder? > > Mike > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -- www.lauramello.org From chmafu at nocords.net Sat Dec 11 08:50:56 2010 From: chmafu at nocords.net (chmafu) Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 14:50:56 +0100 Subject: [microsound] multitrack mp3 recorder, zoom H4 4track? In-Reply-To: <20101211121631.42340@gmx.net> References: <20101211121631.42340@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4D0381C0.2020802@nocords.net> Not sure about the H4 but I think the only Zoom that can do 4-track is the H4n. I use it to record concerts from the mixing desk and two external mics with pretty good results. Best, maru On 11.12.2010 13:16, Laura Mello wrote: > Sorry, but, have you ever really recorded 4 tracks at the same time with the Zoom H4? My experience and my researches in thousands of user forums says that it can only do overdubbing, or one of the 2 stereo sets at a time (internal mic or the 2 xlr-external), but no 4-Track recording, unfortunately... > > But I would love to know if someone did it, and how... > > Best > Laura -- chmafu nocords - http://www.nocords.net http://www.cafeshops.com/chmafu_nocords http://www.youtube.com/user/marufura supported by SKE http://www.ske-fonds.at/ From beatthefinalboss at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 23:14:19 2010 From: beatthefinalboss at gmail.com (Nic Freed) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 23:14:19 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" Message-ID: Hello :) I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura recently, with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn more about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected to the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the feedback come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better, so I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create something with this method. I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and something to create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it for my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x Thank you very much, in advance! --Nic -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mis at artengine.ca Mon Dec 13 23:49:51 2010 From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 23:49:51 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Nic, The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you plug its output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ knobs to shape the resulting signal. Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross connections between different strips). Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). The idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your only control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the ambient noise. Happy feedback! ./MiS On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed wrote: > Hello :) > I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura recently, > with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn more > about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected to > the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the feedback > come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better, so > I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create something > with this method. > I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and something to > create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it for > my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x > Thank you very much, in advance! > --Nic > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > From beatthefinalboss at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 08:12:26 2010 From: beatthefinalboss at gmail.com (Nic Freed) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 08:12:26 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, but I do not speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very anxious to try ;) If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board with an input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? Thanks again! --Nic On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta wrote: > Hi Nic, > > The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board > is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you plug its > output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the > system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to > build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can > greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little > bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ knobs to > shape the resulting signal. > > Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily > start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true > to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls > being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: > treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and > ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will > have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross > connections between different strips). > > Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant > gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise > ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. > > If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be > interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). The > idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass > directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your only > control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the > ambient noise. > > Happy feedback! > > ./MiS > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed > wrote: > > Hello :) > > I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura > recently, > > with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn > more > > about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected to > > the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the feedback > > come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better, > so > > I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create > something > > with this method. > > I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and something > to > > create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it > for > > my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x > > Thank you very much, in advance! > > --Nic > > _______________________________________________ > > microsound mailing list > > microsound at microsound.org > > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mis at artengine.ca Tue Dec 14 08:32:07 2010 From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 08:32:07 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a 100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally useless for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also need a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest electronics surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for increased flexibility of routing signals. Here's one good deal for a Behringer: http://bit.ly/f4JPqy You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. Cheers. ./MiS On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed wrote: > Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like?Larseneurs, but I do not > speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( > You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very anxious > to try ;) > If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board with an > input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? > Thanks again! > --Nic > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta wrote: >> >> Hi Nic, >> >> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board >> is never perfectly silent. ?It is then expected that when you plug its >> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the >> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to >> build a feedback loop. ?Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can >> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little >> bit of noise to the signal as well). ?You can then use the EQ knobs to >> shape the resulting signal. >> >> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily >> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true >> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls >> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: >> treble, mid and bass). ?Note that having multiple mixing strips and >> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will >> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross >> connections between different strips). >> >> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant >> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise >> ratio. ?You will be feeding back in no time. >> >> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be >> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). ?The >> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass >> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. ?Your only >> control is input volume. ?Your sounds will greatly depend on the >> ambient noise. >> >> Happy feedback! >> >> ./MiS >> >> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed >> wrote: >> > Hello :) >> > I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura >> > recently, >> > with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn >> > more >> > about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected >> > to >> > the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the >> > feedback >> > come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better, >> > so >> > I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create >> > something >> > with this method. >> > I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and >> > something to >> > create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it >> > for >> > my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x >> > Thank you very much, in advance! >> > --Nic >> > _______________________________________________ >> > microsound mailing list >> > microsound at microsound.org >> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > From andrewchristophersmith at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 09:00:01 2010 From: andrewchristophersmith at gmail.com (Andrew C. Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:00:01 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7058835E-B1B5-4FE3-877A-B37200B90F3D@gmail.com> Nakamura came to play in Brooklyn a few months back, and actually had a whole rack mount setup with digital reverb and all kinds of effects. Sort of a surprise, to me anyway (I'm only a little familiar with his music), but it was interesting how the feeding back mixer was juxtaposed with this totally stock, everyday digital reverb sound. Also, you may just want to try asking around and seeing if you can borrow a cheap mixer and patch cables from anyone. To my knowledge, no-input feedback can't ruin a board, and most pros (even most amateurs) have a few extra small mixers sitting around. If you try a few out you may know better what to look for when you go to the music shop. Since no one else said it yet: don't use headphones. Good luck. Andrew On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Michal Seta wrote: > You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a > 100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally useless > for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also need > a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest electronics > surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some > amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a > mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just > Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for > increased flexibility of routing signals. > > Here's one good deal for a Behringer: > http://bit.ly/f4JPqy > > You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would > advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or > through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who > understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. > > Cheers. > > ./MiS > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed wrote: >> Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, but I do not >> speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( >> You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very anxious >> to try ;) >> If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board with an >> input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? >> Thanks again! >> --Nic >> >> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta wrote: >>> >>> Hi Nic, >>> >>> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board >>> is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you plug its >>> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the >>> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to >>> build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can >>> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little >>> bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ knobs to >>> shape the resulting signal. >>> >>> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily >>> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true >>> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls >>> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: >>> treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and >>> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will >>> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross >>> connections between different strips). >>> >>> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant >>> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise >>> ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. >>> >>> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be >>> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). The >>> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass >>> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your only >>> control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the >>> ambient noise. >>> >>> Happy feedback! >>> >>> ./MiS >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed >>> wrote: >>>> Hello :) >>>> I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura >>>> recently, >>>> with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn >>>> more >>>> about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected >>>> to >>>> the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the >>>> feedback >>>> come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better, >>>> so >>>> I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create >>>> something >>>> with this method. >>>> I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and >>>> something to >>>> create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it >>>> for >>>> my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x >>>> Thank you very much, in advance! >>>> --Nic >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> microsound mailing list >>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> microsound mailing list >>> microsound at microsound.org >>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> >> > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From sofus at foppa.dk Tue Dec 14 09:24:53 2010 From: sofus at foppa.dk (Sofus Forsberg) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 15:24:53 +0100 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: <7058835E-B1B5-4FE3-877A-B37200B90F3D@gmail.com> Message-ID: My Ensoniq DP-4 got busted some years ago, from making feedback with it. Now it ONLY distorts, so you can damage your gear from making feedback loops with it. I also thought that it was impossible, but i guess you can fuck up the input step somehow... :D > From: "Andrew C. Smith" > Reply-To: > Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:00:01 -0500 > To: , > Cc: Nic Freed > Subject: Re: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" > > Nakamura came to play in Brooklyn a few months back, and actually had a whole > rack mount setup with digital reverb and all kinds of effects. Sort of a > surprise, to me anyway (I'm only a little familiar with his music), but it was > interesting how the feeding back mixer was juxtaposed with this totally stock, > everyday digital reverb sound. > > Also, you may just want to try asking around and seeing if you can borrow a > cheap mixer and patch cables from anyone. To my knowledge, no-input feedback > can't ruin a board, and most pros (even most amateurs) have a few extra small > mixers sitting around. If you try a few out you may know better what to look > for when you go to the music shop. > > Since no one else said it yet: don't use headphones. > > Good luck. > > Andrew > > On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Michal Seta wrote: > >> You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a >> 100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally useless >> for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also need >> a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest electronics >> surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some >> amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a >> mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just >> Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for >> increased flexibility of routing signals. >> >> Here's one good deal for a Behringer: >> http://bit.ly/f4JPqy >> >> You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would >> advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or >> through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who >> understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. >> >> Cheers. >> >> ./MiS >> >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed >> wrote: >>> Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, but I do not >>> speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( >>> You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very anxious >>> to try ;) >>> If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board with an >>> input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? >>> Thanks again! >>> --Nic >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Nic, >>>> >>>> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board >>>> is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you plug its >>>> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the >>>> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to >>>> build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can >>>> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little >>>> bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ knobs to >>>> shape the resulting signal. >>>> >>>> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily >>>> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true >>>> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls >>>> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: >>>> treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and >>>> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will >>>> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross >>>> connections between different strips). >>>> >>>> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant >>>> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise >>>> ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. >>>> >>>> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be >>>> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). The >>>> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass >>>> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your only >>>> control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the >>>> ambient noise. >>>> >>>> Happy feedback! >>>> >>>> ./MiS >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello :) >>>>> I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura >>>>> recently, >>>>> with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn >>>>> more >>>>> about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected >>>>> to >>>>> the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the >>>>> feedback >>>>> come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better, >>>>> so >>>>> I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create >>>>> something >>>>> with this method. >>>>> I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and >>>>> something to >>>>> create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it >>>>> for >>>>> my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x >>>>> Thank you very much, in advance! >>>>> --Nic >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> microsound mailing list >>>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> microsound mailing list >>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From martinlomas at rogers.com Tue Dec 14 10:13:07 2010 From: martinlomas at rogers.com (Martin Lomas) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:13:07 -0500 Subject: [microsound] hydrophones and methane - files Message-ID: <8F98EBEC8F3A44EF8740C967CE452326@computer1> Surely 2GB / MP3 files will be too big to transfer back and forth for us, by any method. Perhaps the files can be cut into pieces. Or maybe only one segment of say 100MB could be used. Even 100MB at 128kbps might easily be 90 minutes of audio. Just thinking out loud :) - Martin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From palace at guero.sr.unh.edu Tue Dec 14 10:16:23 2010 From: palace at guero.sr.unh.edu (Michael Palace) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:16:23 -0500 Subject: [microsound] hydrophones and methane - files In-Reply-To: <8F98EBEC8F3A44EF8740C967CE452326@computer1> References: <8F98EBEC8F3A44EF8740C967CE452326@computer1> Message-ID: <4D078A47.7050404@guero.sr.unh.edu> I will cut them into sections. I have the matlab code written to do this, I just need to run it. I will get something up next week. Proposals due this week. Mike Palace On 12/14/2010 10:13 AM, Martin Lomas wrote: > Surely 2GB / MP3 files will be too big to transfer back and forth for > us, by any method. Perhaps the files can be cut into pieces. Or maybe > only one segment of say 100MB could be used. Even 100MB at 128kbps > might easily be 90 minutes of audio. Just thinking out loud :) > - Martin > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simonlongo at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 11:35:45 2010 From: simonlongo at gmail.com (simon longo) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 16:35:45 +0000 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: <7058835E-B1B5-4FE3-877A-B37200B90F3D@gmail.com> Message-ID: yeah that is like driving a car with your eyes closed, is a good idea to patch a limiter in the chain so that you don't overload too much or just keep an ear to the signal so it does not get too hot :-) On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Sofus Forsberg wrote: > My Ensoniq DP-4 got busted some years ago, from making feedback with it. > Now > it ONLY distorts, so you can damage your gear from making feedback loops > with it. I also thought that it was impossible, but i guess you can fuck up > the input step somehow... :D > > > > From: "Andrew C. Smith" > > Reply-To: > > Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:00:01 -0500 > > To: , > > Cc: Nic Freed > > Subject: Re: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" > > > > Nakamura came to play in Brooklyn a few months back, and actually had a > whole > > rack mount setup with digital reverb and all kinds of effects. Sort of a > > surprise, to me anyway (I'm only a little familiar with his music), but > it was > > interesting how the feeding back mixer was juxtaposed with this totally > stock, > > everyday digital reverb sound. > > > > Also, you may just want to try asking around and seeing if you can borrow > a > > cheap mixer and patch cables from anyone. To my knowledge, no-input > feedback > > can't ruin a board, and most pros (even most amateurs) have a few extra > small > > mixers sitting around. If you try a few out you may know better what to > look > > for when you go to the music shop. > > > > Since no one else said it yet: don't use headphones. > > > > Good luck. > > > > Andrew > > > > On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Michal Seta wrote: > > > >> You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a > >> 100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally useless > >> for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also need > >> a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest electronics > >> surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some > >> amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a > >> mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just > >> Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for > >> increased flexibility of routing signals. > >> > >> Here's one good deal for a Behringer: > >> http://bit.ly/f4JPqy > >> > >> You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would > >> advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or > >> through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who > >> understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. > >> > >> Cheers. > >> > >> ./MiS > >> > >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed > >> wrote: > >>> Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, but I > do not > >>> speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( > >>> You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very > anxious > >>> to try ;) > >>> If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board > with an > >>> input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? > >>> Thanks again! > >>> --Nic > >>> > >>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Nic, > >>>> > >>>> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board > >>>> is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you plug its > >>>> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the > >>>> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to > >>>> build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can > >>>> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little > >>>> bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ knobs to > >>>> shape the resulting signal. > >>>> > >>>> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily > >>>> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true > >>>> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls > >>>> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: > >>>> treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and > >>>> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will > >>>> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross > >>>> connections between different strips). > >>>> > >>>> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant > >>>> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise > >>>> ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. > >>>> > >>>> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be > >>>> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). The > >>>> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass > >>>> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your only > >>>> control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the > >>>> ambient noise. > >>>> > >>>> Happy feedback! > >>>> > >>>> ./MiS > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed < > beatthefinalboss at gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> Hello :) > >>>>> I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura > >>>>> recently, > >>>>> with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to > learn > >>>>> more > >>>>> about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is > connected > >>>>> to > >>>>> the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the > >>>>> feedback > >>>>> come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it > better, > >>>>> so > >>>>> I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create > >>>>> something > >>>>> with this method. > >>>>> I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and > >>>>> something to > >>>>> create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get > it > >>>>> for > >>>>> my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x > >>>>> Thank you very much, in advance! > >>>>> --Nic > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> microsound mailing list > >>>>> microsound at microsound.org > >>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> microsound mailing list > >>>> microsound at microsound.org > >>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> microsound mailing list > >> microsound at microsound.org > >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > > _______________________________________________ > > microsound mailing list > > microsound at microsound.org > > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -- Skype: Dithernoise UK: 0044 (0) 7887561945 / IT: 00393490910263 www.simonlongo.com / www.dithernoise.net / www.visual-rhythms.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simonlongo at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 11:38:26 2010 From: simonlongo at gmail.com (simon longo) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 16:38:26 +0000 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: <7058835E-B1B5-4FE3-877A-B37200B90F3D@gmail.com> Message-ID: emm... my suggestion, just get any cheap mixer and do some experimentation with it, it is the only way forward. I would think an analogue mixer will be ideal... On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:35 PM, simon longo wrote: > yeah that is like driving a car with your eyes closed, is a good idea to > patch a limiter in the chain so that you don't overload too much or just > keep an ear to the signal so it does not get too hot :-) > > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 2:24 PM, Sofus Forsberg wrote: > >> My Ensoniq DP-4 got busted some years ago, from making feedback with it. >> Now >> it ONLY distorts, so you can damage your gear from making feedback loops >> with it. I also thought that it was impossible, but i guess you can fuck >> up >> the input step somehow... :D >> >> >> > From: "Andrew C. Smith" >> > Reply-To: >> > Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:00:01 -0500 >> > To: , >> > Cc: Nic Freed >> > Subject: Re: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" >> > >> > Nakamura came to play in Brooklyn a few months back, and actually had a >> whole >> > rack mount setup with digital reverb and all kinds of effects. Sort of a >> > surprise, to me anyway (I'm only a little familiar with his music), but >> it was >> > interesting how the feeding back mixer was juxtaposed with this totally >> stock, >> > everyday digital reverb sound. >> > >> > Also, you may just want to try asking around and seeing if you can >> borrow a >> > cheap mixer and patch cables from anyone. To my knowledge, no-input >> feedback >> > can't ruin a board, and most pros (even most amateurs) have a few extra >> small >> > mixers sitting around. If you try a few out you may know better what to >> look >> > for when you go to the music shop. >> > >> > Since no one else said it yet: don't use headphones. >> > >> > Good luck. >> > >> > Andrew >> > >> > On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Michal Seta wrote: >> > >> >> You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a >> >> 100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally useless >> >> for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also need >> >> a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest electronics >> >> surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some >> >> amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a >> >> mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just >> >> Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for >> >> increased flexibility of routing signals. >> >> >> >> Here's one good deal for a Behringer: >> >> http://bit.ly/f4JPqy >> >> >> >> You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would >> >> advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or >> >> through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who >> >> understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. >> >> >> >> Cheers. >> >> >> >> ./MiS >> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed > > >> >> wrote: >> >>> Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, but I >> do not >> >>> speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( >> >>> You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very >> anxious >> >>> to try ;) >> >>> If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board >> with an >> >>> input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? >> >>> Thanks again! >> >>> --Nic >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta >> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Hi Nic, >> >>>> >> >>>> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board >> >>>> is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you plug >> its >> >>>> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the >> >>>> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to >> >>>> build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can >> >>>> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little >> >>>> bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ knobs >> to >> >>>> shape the resulting signal. >> >>>> >> >>>> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very >> easily >> >>>> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true >> >>>> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls >> >>>> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple >> boards: >> >>>> treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and >> >>>> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers >> will >> >>>> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross >> >>>> connections between different strips). >> >>>> >> >>>> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant >> >>>> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise >> >>>> ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. >> >>>> >> >>>> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be >> >>>> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). >> The >> >>>> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass >> >>>> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your >> only >> >>>> control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the >> >>>> ambient noise. >> >>>> >> >>>> Happy feedback! >> >>>> >> >>>> ./MiS >> >>>> >> >>>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed < >> beatthefinalboss at gmail.com> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> Hello :) >> >>>>> I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura >> >>>>> recently, >> >>>>> with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to >> learn >> >>>>> more >> >>>>> about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is >> connected >> >>>>> to >> >>>>> the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the >> >>>>> feedback >> >>>>> come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it >> better, >> >>>>> so >> >>>>> I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create >> >>>>> something >> >>>>> with this method. >> >>>>> I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and >> >>>>> something to >> >>>>> create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and >> get it >> >>>>> for >> >>>>> my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x >> >>>>> Thank you very much, in advance! >> >>>>> --Nic >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> microsound mailing list >> >>>>> microsound at microsound.org >> >>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> microsound mailing list >> >>>> microsound at microsound.org >> >>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> >>> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> microsound mailing list >> >> microsound at microsound.org >> >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > microsound mailing list >> > microsound at microsound.org >> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> > > > > -- > Skype: Dithernoise > > UK: 0044 (0) 7887561945 / IT: 00393490910263 > > www.simonlongo.com / www.dithernoise.net / www.visual-rhythms.net > > > -- Skype: Dithernoise UK: 0044 (0) 7887561945 / IT: 00393490910263 www.simonlongo.com / www.dithernoise.net / www.visual-rhythms.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dfkettle at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 12:24:23 2010 From: dfkettle at gmail.com (David) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 12:24:23 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" Message-ID: Has anyone ever tried to emulate the effect using just software, like PureData for example? It might be fun to put together a patch that does something more or less the same, although I imagine you'd get different results with every model of mixing board (maybe even with different units of the same model). You could start with a short sample of 60 cycle hum or other noise coming from a mixing board, or just synthesize it "from scratch". Anyone know of any Fourier analysis of 60 cycle hum that's been done? Is it just narrow-band noise centered around 60 cps? You'd save money on hardware, too. From sofus at foppa.dk Tue Dec 14 12:42:09 2010 From: sofus at foppa.dk (Sofus Forsberg) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 18:42:09 +0100 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Though you would need a computer ;) > From: David > Reply-To: > Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 12:24:23 -0500 > To: > Subject: Re: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" > > Has anyone ever tried to emulate the effect using just software, like > PureData for example? It might be fun to put together a patch that > does something more or less the same, although I imagine you'd get > different results with every model of mixing board (maybe even with > different units of the same model). You could start with a short > sample of 60 cycle hum or other noise coming from a mixing board, or > just synthesize it "from scratch". Anyone know of any Fourier analysis > of 60 cycle hum that's been done? Is it just narrow-band noise > centered around 60 cps? > > You'd save money on hardware, too. > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From brendan at brendanlandis.com Tue Dec 14 12:43:13 2010 From: brendan at brendanlandis.com (Brendan Landis) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 12:43:13 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6C2BC735-8380-44D3-B926-BF0D465AB4B0@brendanlandis.com> Also you don't have to keep it super quiet, you can just turn everything way up and see what happens - it's a bit of a different beast. Obviously the instrument is pretty young, so there's pretty much nothing but room for play. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LuIPNZo1zo cheers, Brendan heyexit.com From cyborgk at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 14:09:18 2010 From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:09:18 -0600 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I've done this, with a Behringer in fact, I recommend also getting like 3 or 4 cheap analog guitar pedals too, I like the Dan Electo ones. Believe me... it not only works but you can definitely get some surprising sounds if you fiddle for a while... even very small differences in a knob will make sometimes make huge changes in sound, you are basically playing with an unstable chaotic feedback system so little modifications in the signal path have nonlinear and unpredictable results... ~David On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 7:32 AM, Michal Seta wrote: > You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a > 100$ at your local music equipment store. ?Those are totally useless > for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. ?Of course you also need > a lot of patch cords. ?You may want to check your nearest electronics > surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some > amateur mixing boards!). ?Just make sure that when you are buying a > mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just > Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for > increased flexibility of routing signals. > > Here's one good deal for a Behringer: > http://bit.ly/f4JPqy > > You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would > advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or > through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who > understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. > > Cheers. > > ./MiS > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed wrote: >> Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like?Larseneurs, but I do not >> speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( >> You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very anxious >> to try ;) >> If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board with an >> input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? >> Thanks again! >> --Nic >> >> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta wrote: >>> >>> Hi Nic, >>> >>> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board >>> is never perfectly silent. ?It is then expected that when you plug its >>> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the >>> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to >>> build a feedback loop. ?Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can >>> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little >>> bit of noise to the signal as well). ?You can then use the EQ knobs to >>> shape the resulting signal. >>> >>> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily >>> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true >>> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls >>> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: >>> treble, mid and bass). ?Note that having multiple mixing strips and >>> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will >>> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross >>> connections between different strips). >>> >>> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant >>> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise >>> ratio. ?You will be feeding back in no time. >>> >>> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be >>> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). ?The >>> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass >>> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. ?Your only >>> control is input volume. ?Your sounds will greatly depend on the >>> ambient noise. >>> >>> Happy feedback! >>> >>> ./MiS >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed >>> wrote: >>> > Hello :) >>> > I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura >>> > recently, >>> > with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn >>> > more >>> > about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected >>> > to >>> > the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the >>> > feedback >>> > come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better, >>> > so >>> > I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create >>> > something >>> > with this method. >>> > I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and >>> > something to >>> > create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it >>> > for >>> > my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x >>> > Thank you very much, in advance! >>> > --Nic >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > microsound mailing list >>> > microsound at microsound.org >>> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> microsound mailing list >>> microsound at microsound.org >>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> >> > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > From cyborgk at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 14:11:19 2010 From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:11:19 -0600 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The problem is--you can't get true nonlinear feedback with discrete (binary) numbers as far as I know... My guess is you'd have to work pretty hard to simulate things with some type of nonlinear equations... At least I wanted to do something like this but could never figure it out. ~David On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:24 AM, David wrote: > Has anyone ever tried to emulate the effect using just software, like > PureData for example? It might be fun to put together a patch that > does something more or less the same, although I imagine you'd get > different results with every model of mixing board (maybe even with > different units of the same model). You could start with a short > sample of 60 cycle hum or other noise coming from a mixing board, or > just synthesize it "from scratch". Anyone know of any Fourier analysis > of 60 cycle hum that's been done? Is it just narrow-band noise > centered around 60 cps? > > You'd save money on hardware, too. > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > From noisesmith at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 14:18:05 2010 From: noisesmith at gmail.com (Justin Glenn Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:18:05 -0800 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D07C2ED.7040509@gmail.com> Regarding patch cords: the signal will be so hot, that you don't need a good cord. Or a real cord even. I had great performance from an old radioshack brand mixer where I used cut up and bent pieces of coathanger, one end shoved into the hole of one of the RCA style inputs, the other end shoved into the hole of one of the RCA outputs. Michal Seta wrote: > You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a > 100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally useless > for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also need > a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest electronics > surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some > amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a > mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just > Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for > increased flexibility of routing signals. > > Here's one good deal for a Behringer: > http://bit.ly/f4JPqy > > You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would > advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or > through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who > understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. > > Cheers. > > ./MiS > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed wrote: >> Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, but I do not >> speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( >> You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very anxious >> to try ;) >> If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board with an >> input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? >> Thanks again! >> --Nic >> >> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta wrote: >>> Hi Nic, >>> >>> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board >>> is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you plug its >>> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the >>> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to >>> build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can >>> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little >>> bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ knobs to >>> shape the resulting signal. >>> >>> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily >>> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true >>> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls >>> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: >>> treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and >>> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will >>> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross >>> connections between different strips). >>> >>> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant >>> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise >>> ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. >>> >>> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be >>> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). The >>> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass >>> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your only >>> control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the >>> ambient noise. >>> >>> Happy feedback! >>> >>> ./MiS >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed >>> wrote: >>>> Hello :) >>>> I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura >>>> recently, >>>> with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn >>>> more >>>> about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected >>>> to >>>> the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the >>>> feedback >>>> come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better, >>>> so >>>> I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create >>>> something >>>> with this method. >>>> I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and >>>> something to >>>> create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it >>>> for >>>> my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x >>>> Thank you very much, in advance! >>>> --Nic >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> microsound mailing list >>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> microsound mailing list >>> microsound at microsound.org >>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From noisesmith at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 14:25:54 2010 From: noisesmith at gmail.com (Justin Glenn Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:25:54 -0800 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D07C4C2.9010300@gmail.com> Feedback causes nonlinear behaviours in qauntized signals as well. The main problem ends up being the control rate / buffer size which sets a minimum duration on feedback (unless the whole thing is coded in C as one unit generator / object). Also you will probably want to liberally sprinkle weak low pass filters all over the circuit (all analog components have some low pass property, however subtle). On the implementation side, a first order IIR filter is actually a very short delay line with feedback, so it may be worth experimenting with various configurations of interconnected IIR filters, and some extra feedback paths for good measure. David Powers wrote: > The problem is--you can't get true nonlinear feedback with discrete > (binary) numbers as far as I know... > My guess is you'd have to work pretty hard to simulate things with > some type of nonlinear equations... > At least I wanted to do something like this but could never figure it out. > > ~David > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:24 AM, David wrote: >> Has anyone ever tried to emulate the effect using just software, like >> PureData for example? It might be fun to put together a patch that >> does something more or less the same, although I imagine you'd get >> different results with every model of mixing board (maybe even with >> different units of the same model). You could start with a short >> sample of 60 cycle hum or other noise coming from a mixing board, or >> just synthesize it "from scratch". Anyone know of any Fourier analysis >> of 60 cycle hum that's been done? Is it just narrow-band noise >> centered around 60 cps? >> >> You'd save money on hardware, too. >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > From brendan at brendanlandis.com Tue Dec 14 14:33:22 2010 From: brendan at brendanlandis.com (Brendan Landis) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:33:22 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: <4D07C2ED.7040509@gmail.com> References: <4D07C2ED.7040509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7FD4F7B9-A6BE-4170-92C1-E6F1325FBA21@brendanlandis.com> Justin, did any cool recordings come out of those experiments? Sounds fun! cheers, Brendan heyexit.com On Dec 14, 2010, at 2:18 PM, Justin Glenn Smith wrote: > Regarding patch cords: the signal will be so hot, that you don't > need a good cord. Or a real cord even. I had great performance from > an old radioshack brand mixer where I used cut up and bent pieces of > coathanger, one end shoved into the hole of one of the RCA style > inputs, the other end shoved into the hole of one of the RCA outputs. > > Michal Seta wrote: >> You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a >> 100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally useless >> for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also >> need >> a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest electronics >> surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some >> amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a >> mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than >> just >> Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for >> increased flexibility of routing signals. >> >> Here's one good deal for a Behringer: >> http://bit.ly/f4JPqy >> >> You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would >> advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or >> through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who >> understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. >> >> Cheers. >> >> ./MiS >> >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed > > wrote: >>> Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, >>> but I do not >>> speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( >>> You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very >>> anxious >>> to try ;) >>> If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing >>> board with an >>> input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? >>> Thanks again! >>> --Nic >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta >>> wrote: >>>> Hi Nic, >>>> >>>> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing >>>> board >>>> is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you >>>> plug its >>>> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the >>>> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to >>>> build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which >>>> can >>>> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little >>>> bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ >>>> knobs to >>>> shape the resulting signal. >>>> >>>> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very >>>> easily >>>> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be >>>> true >>>> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls >>>> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple >>>> boards: >>>> treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and >>>> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers >>>> will >>>> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make >>>> cross >>>> connections between different strips). >>>> >>>> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant >>>> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to >>>> noise >>>> ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. >>>> >>>> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be >>>> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). >>>> The >>>> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass >>>> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your >>>> only >>>> control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the >>>> ambient noise. >>>> >>>> Happy feedback! >>>> >>>> ./MiS >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed >>> > >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello :) >>>>> I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura >>>>> recently, >>>>> with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to >>>>> learn >>>>> more >>>>> about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is >>>>> connected >>>>> to >>>>> the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the >>>>> feedback >>>>> come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it >>>>> better, >>>>> so >>>>> I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create >>>>> something >>>>> with this method. >>>>> I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and >>>>> something to >>>>> create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try >>>>> and get it >>>>> for >>>>> my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x >>>>> Thank you very much, in advance! >>>>> --Nic >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> microsound mailing list >>>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> microsound mailing list >>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From dfkettle at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 14:27:53 2010 From: dfkettle at gmail.com (David) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:27:53 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I love Wikipedia. There's an article on "mains hum" with a spectral analysis and 5 second samples of 50 Hz and 60 Hz hum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_hum David. From mis at artengine.ca Tue Dec 14 14:57:34 2010 From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:57:34 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: <4D07C4C2.9010300@gmail.com> References: <4D07C4C2.9010300@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Justin Glenn Smith wrote: > The main problem ends up being the control rate / buffer size which sets a minimum duration on feedback (unless the whole thing is coded in C as one unit generator / object). No need for low level coding with C or anything like that. You can achieve that kind of precision with ChucK (it has samplewise clock), CSound (if sr=kr), and probably other systems that allow that kind of fine0tuning. You could probably even run Pd or Max at 1 sample size blocks, it will eat a lot of CPU but it should be easily achieved for straight feedback and a couple of optional low pass filters. ./MiS From noisesmith at gmail.com Tue Dec 14 15:23:59 2010 From: noisesmith at gmail.com (Justin Glenn Smith) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 12:23:59 -0800 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: <7FD4F7B9-A6BE-4170-92C1-E6F1325FBA21@brendanlandis.com> References: <4D07C2ED.7040509@gmail.com> <7FD4F7B9-A6BE-4170-92C1-E6F1325FBA21@brendanlandis.com> Message-ID: <4D07D25F.5030106@gmail.com> It was much fun. I destroyed almost all my recordings from the '90s in a fit of pique, so someone may have recordings of the device (I even played it live on radio a few times), but I don't. Brendan Landis wrote: > Justin, did any cool recordings come out of those experiments? Sounds fun! > > > cheers, > Brendan > heyexit.com > > > On Dec 14, 2010, at 2:18 PM, Justin Glenn Smith wrote: > >> Regarding patch cords: the signal will be so hot, that you don't need >> a good cord. Or a real cord even. I had great performance from an old >> radioshack brand mixer where I used cut up and bent pieces of >> coathanger, one end shoved into the hole of one of the RCA style >> inputs, the other end shoved into the hole of one of the RCA outputs. >> >> Michal Seta wrote: >>> You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a >>> 100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally useless >>> for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also need >>> a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest electronics >>> surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some >>> amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a >>> mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just >>> Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for >>> increased flexibility of routing signals. >>> >>> Here's one good deal for a Behringer: >>> http://bit.ly/f4JPqy >>> >>> You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would >>> advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or >>> through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who >>> understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. >>> >>> Cheers. >>> >>> ./MiS >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed >>> wrote: >>>> Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, but >>>> I do not >>>> speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( >>>> You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very >>>> anxious >>>> to try ;) >>>> If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board >>>> with an >>>> input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? >>>> Thanks again! >>>> --Nic >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta wrote: >>>>> Hi Nic, >>>>> >>>>> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board >>>>> is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you plug its >>>>> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the >>>>> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to >>>>> build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can >>>>> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little >>>>> bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ knobs to >>>>> shape the resulting signal. >>>>> >>>>> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily >>>>> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true >>>>> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls >>>>> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: >>>>> treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and >>>>> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will >>>>> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross >>>>> connections between different strips). >>>>> >>>>> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant >>>>> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise >>>>> ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. >>>>> >>>>> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be >>>>> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). The >>>>> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass >>>>> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your only >>>>> control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the >>>>> ambient noise. >>>>> >>>>> Happy feedback! >>>>> >>>>> ./MiS >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hello :) >>>>>> I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura >>>>>> recently, >>>>>> with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to >>>>>> learn >>>>>> more >>>>>> about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is >>>>>> connected >>>>>> to >>>>>> the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the >>>>>> feedback >>>>>> come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it >>>>>> better, >>>>>> so >>>>>> I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create >>>>>> something >>>>>> with this method. >>>>>> I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and >>>>>> something to >>>>>> create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and >>>>>> get it >>>>>> for >>>>>> my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x >>>>>> Thank you very much, in advance! >>>>>> --Nic >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> microsound mailing list >>>>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> microsound mailing list >>>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> microsound mailing list >>> microsound at microsound.org >>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > From mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es Tue Dec 14 16:32:23 2010 From: mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es (Jaime Munarriz Ortiz) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:32:23 +0100 Subject: [microsound] No Input Mixing Board Message-ID: <4D07E267.3050104@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es> On PureData you cannot wire a direct loop: "...the error message "DSP loop detected" appears and audio will no longer be sent through the loop. Without using time delay on the signal, you can't create any (audio) recursions". (/loadbang /book. http://www.pd-tutorial.com/english/ch04.html)* *but you can introduce a small delay to avoid the problem (delread/delwrite). * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dev at commtom.com Tue Dec 14 17:07:34 2010 From: dev at commtom.com (devslashnull) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 15:07:34 -0700 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: <4D07D25F.5030106@gmail.com> References: <4D07C2ED.7040509@gmail.com> <7FD4F7B9-A6BE-4170-92C1-E6F1325FBA21@brendanlandis.com> <4D07D25F.5030106@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1DD4B542-6C8A-4064-B43D-610CA8D23577@commtom.com> maybe it is time for a microsound "no-input" project/compilation? On Dec 14, 2010, at 1:23 PM, Justin Glenn Smith wrote: > It was much fun. I destroyed almost all my recordings from the '90s > in a fit of pique, so someone may have recordings of the device (I > even played it live on radio a few times), but I don't. > > Brendan Landis wrote: >> Justin, did any cool recordings come out of those experiments? >> Sounds fun! >> >> >> cheers, >> Brendan >> heyexit.com >> >> >> On Dec 14, 2010, at 2:18 PM, Justin Glenn Smith wrote: >> >>> Regarding patch cords: the signal will be so hot, that you don't >>> need >>> a good cord. Or a real cord even. I had great performance from an >>> old >>> radioshack brand mixer where I used cut up and bent pieces of >>> coathanger, one end shoved into the hole of one of the RCA style >>> inputs, the other end shoved into the hole of one of the RCA >>> outputs. >>> >>> Michal Seta wrote: >>>> You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a >>>> 100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally >>>> useless >>>> for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also >>>> need >>>> a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest >>>> electronics >>>> surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some >>>> amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a >>>> mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than >>>> just >>>> Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for >>>> increased flexibility of routing signals. >>>> >>>> Here's one good deal for a Behringer: >>>> http://bit.ly/f4JPqy >>>> >>>> You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would >>>> advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or >>>> through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who >>>> understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. >>>> >>>> Cheers. >>>> >>>> ./MiS >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed >>>> wrote: >>>>> Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, >>>>> but >>>>> I do not >>>>> speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( >>>>> You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very >>>>> anxious >>>>> to try ;) >>>>> If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing >>>>> board >>>>> with an >>>>> input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? >>>>> Thanks again! >>>>> --Nic >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi Nic, >>>>>> >>>>>> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing >>>>>> board >>>>>> is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you >>>>>> plug its >>>>>> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within >>>>>> the >>>>>> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able >>>>>> to >>>>>> build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in >>>>>> which can >>>>>> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a >>>>>> little >>>>>> bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ >>>>>> knobs to >>>>>> shape the resulting signal. >>>>>> >>>>>> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very >>>>>> easily >>>>>> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to >>>>>> be true >>>>>> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only >>>>>> controls >>>>>> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple >>>>>> boards: >>>>>> treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips >>>>>> and >>>>>> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most >>>>>> mixers will >>>>>> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make >>>>>> cross >>>>>> connections between different strips). >>>>>> >>>>>> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant >>>>>> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to >>>>>> noise >>>>>> ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. >>>>>> >>>>>> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also >>>>>> be >>>>>> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/ >>>>>> NewsENG.php). The >>>>>> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass >>>>>> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. >>>>>> Your only >>>>>> control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the >>>>>> ambient noise. >>>>>> >>>>>> Happy feedback! >>>>>> >>>>>> ./MiS >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hello :) >>>>>>> I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura >>>>>>> recently, >>>>>>> with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to >>>>>>> learn >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is >>>>>>> connected >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the >>>>>>> feedback >>>>>>> come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it >>>>>>> better, >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to >>>>>>> create >>>>>>> something >>>>>>> with this method. >>>>>>> I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and >>>>>>> something to >>>>>>> create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> get it >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x >>>>>>> Thank you very much, in advance! >>>>>>> --Nic >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> microsound mailing list >>>>>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> microsound mailing list >>>>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> microsound mailing list >>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> microsound mailing list >>> microsound at microsound.org >>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From scott at artificia.org Tue Dec 14 17:23:20 2010 From: scott at artificia.org (Scott Carver) Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:23:20 -0800 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: <7058835E-B1B5-4FE3-877A-B37200B90F3D@gmail.com> References: <7058835E-B1B5-4FE3-877A-B37200B90F3D@gmail.com> Message-ID: I would advise anyone who gets a chance to try it out - it's a ton of fun. It is, however, VERY unstable and thus very hard to control changes. Without any kind of loop pedal or external software or anything, it tends to be a process of (a) messing around randomly until you find an awesome stable state, and (b) carefully pushing that stable state around until you either lose it or lose interest. With respect to that, I've actually found that less cheap mixers are sometimes better. Doing it with a crappy second hand one seems like a good idea, but if the pots are shitty it becomes pretty difficult to hone in on anything interesting. The last mixer I tried it with would sometimes lose it's state if I bumped the table it was on.... And, with regard to external effects / reverb - anything that can introduce nonlinearities and then be fed back into the signal is great, but anything that introduces delay tends to be bad. I've tried it with, for example, cheapo digital reverbs, and sometimes the only sound you get is a tone at 1/effect latency - not interesting. Analog signal chain is the way to go. - Scott On Dec 14, 2010, at 6:00 AM, Andrew C. Smith wrote: > Nakamura came to play in Brooklyn a few months back, and actually had a whole rack mount setup with digital reverb and all kinds of effects. Sort of a surprise, to me anyway (I'm only a little familiar with his music), but it was interesting how the feeding back mixer was juxtaposed with this totally stock, everyday digital reverb sound. > > Also, you may just want to try asking around and seeing if you can borrow a cheap mixer and patch cables from anyone. To my knowledge, no-input feedback can't ruin a board, and most pros (even most amateurs) have a few extra small mixers sitting around. If you try a few out you may know better what to look for when you go to the music shop. > > Since no one else said it yet: don't use headphones. > > Good luck. > > Andrew > > On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Michal Seta wrote: > >> You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a >> 100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally useless >> for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also need >> a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest electronics >> surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some >> amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a >> mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just >> Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for >> increased flexibility of routing signals. >> >> Here's one good deal for a Behringer: >> http://bit.ly/f4JPqy >> >> You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would >> advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or >> through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who >> understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. >> >> Cheers. >> >> ./MiS >> >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed wrote: >>> Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, but I do not >>> speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( >>> You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very anxious >>> to try ;) >>> If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board with an >>> input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? >>> Thanks again! >>> --Nic >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Nic, >>>> >>>> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board >>>> is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you plug its >>>> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the >>>> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to >>>> build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can >>>> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little >>>> bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ knobs to >>>> shape the resulting signal. >>>> >>>> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily >>>> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true >>>> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls >>>> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: >>>> treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and >>>> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will >>>> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross >>>> connections between different strips). >>>> >>>> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant >>>> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise >>>> ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. >>>> >>>> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be >>>> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). The >>>> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass >>>> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your only >>>> control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the >>>> ambient noise. >>>> >>>> Happy feedback! >>>> >>>> ./MiS >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello :) >>>>> I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura >>>>> recently, >>>>> with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn >>>>> more >>>>> about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected >>>>> to >>>>> the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the >>>>> feedback >>>>> come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better, >>>>> so >>>>> I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create >>>>> something >>>>> with this method. >>>>> I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and >>>>> something to >>>>> create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it >>>>> for >>>>> my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x >>>>> Thank you very much, in advance! >>>>> --Nic >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> microsound mailing list >>>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> microsound mailing list >>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at chrisgregory.com Tue Dec 14 17:34:53 2010 From: chris at chrisgregory.com (Chris Gregory) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 09:34:53 +1100 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: <7058835E-B1B5-4FE3-877A-B37200B90F3D@gmail.com> Message-ID: DOD made a number of stereo guitar pedals - chorus, flanger and so on - with a single input and stereo outputs. So it's easy enough to plug one output into the input and monitor the other out. They can be picked up very cheaply (a lot of the DOD stuff was marketed at teenagers so grown-ups don't like them. Imagine Eric Clapton using a pedal with a knob labelled 'Ass'). Chris On 15 December 2010 09:23, Scott Carver wrote: > I would advise anyone who gets a chance to try it out - it's a ton of fun. > It is, however, VERY unstable and thus very hard to control changes. Without > any kind of loop pedal or external software or anything, it tends to be a > process of (a) messing around randomly until you find an awesome stable > state, and (b) carefully pushing that stable state around until you either > lose it or lose interest. With respect to that, I've actually found that > less?cheap mixers are sometimes better. Doing it with a crappy second hand > one seems like a good idea, but if the pots are shitty it becomes pretty > difficult to hone in on anything interesting. The last mixer I tried it with > would sometimes lose it's state if I bumped the table it was on.... > And, with regard to external effects / reverb - anything that can introduce > nonlinearities and then be fed back into the signal is great, but anything > that introduces delay?tends to be bad. I've tried it with, for example, > cheapo digital reverbs, and sometimes the only sound you get is a tone at > 1/effect latency - not interesting. Analog signal chain is the way to go. > - Scott > > On Dec 14, 2010, at 6:00 AM, Andrew C. Smith wrote: > > Nakamura came to play in Brooklyn a few months back, and actually had a > whole rack mount setup with digital reverb and all kinds of effects. Sort of > a surprise, to me anyway (I'm only a little familiar with his music), but it > was interesting how the feeding back mixer was juxtaposed with this totally > stock, everyday digital reverb sound. > > Also, you may just want to try asking around and seeing if you can borrow a > cheap mixer and patch cables from anyone. To my knowledge, no-input feedback > can't ruin a board, and most pros (even most amateurs) have a few extra > small mixers sitting around. If you try a few out you may know better what > to look for when you go to the music shop. > > Since no one else said it yet: don't use headphones. > > Good luck. > > Andrew > > On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Michal Seta wrote: > > You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a > > 100$ at your local music equipment store. ?Those are totally useless > > for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. ?Of course you also need > > a lot of patch cords. ?You may want to check your nearest electronics > > surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some > > amateur mixing boards!). ?Just make sure that when you are buying a > > mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just > > Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for > > increased flexibility of routing signals. > > Here's one good deal for a Behringer: > > http://bit.ly/f4JPqy > > You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would > > advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or > > through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who > > understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. > > Cheers. > > ./MiS > > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed > wrote: > > Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, but I do not > > speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( > > You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very anxious > > to try ;) > > If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board with an > > input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? > > Thanks again! > > --Nic > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta wrote: > > Hi Nic, > > The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board > > is never perfectly silent. ?It is then expected that when you plug its > > output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the > > system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to > > build a feedback loop. ?Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can > > greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little > > bit of noise to the signal as well). ?You can then use the EQ knobs to > > shape the resulting signal. > > Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily > > start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true > > to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls > > being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: > > treble, mid and bass). ?Note that having multiple mixing strips and > > ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will > > have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross > > connections between different strips). > > Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant > > gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise > > ratio. ?You will be feeding back in no time. > > If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be > > interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). ?The > > idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass > > directly from your microphone input straight to the output. ?Your only > > control is input volume. ?Your sounds will greatly depend on the > > ambient noise. > > Happy feedback! > > ./MiS > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed > > wrote: > > Hello :) > > I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura > > recently, > > with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn > > more > > about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected > > to > > the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the > > feedback > > come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better, > > so > > I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create > > something > > with this method. > > I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and > > something to > > create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it > > for > > my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x > > Thank you very much, in advance! > > --Nic > > _______________________________________________ > > microsound mailing list > > microsound at microsound.org > > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > _______________________________________________ > > microsound mailing list > > microsound at microsound.org > > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > _______________________________________________ > > microsound mailing list > > microsound at microsound.org > > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > -- Chris Gregory --- chris at chrisgregory.com From renato.fabbri at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 15:54:16 2010 From: renato.fabbri at gmail.com (Renato Fabbri) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 18:54:16 -0200 Subject: [microsound] music database for analysis Message-ID: Dear Microlisters, I am looking for some databases for music analisys. I know of these two: 1) http://kern.ccarh.org/ 2) something bundled with music21 software: http://mit.edu/music21/ But they are not enough. I could convert PDFs to musicXML too, but i dont believe this will get us far... Any help? Thanks, rf -- GNU/Linux User #479299 skype: fabbri.renato From robin at robinparmar.com Sun Dec 19 23:01:49 2010 From: robin at robinparmar.com (Robin Parmar) Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 20:01:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [microsound] No Input Mixing Board Message-ID: <839538.98285.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I agree -- this sort of thing is fun! I have worked regularly with feedback loops in live situations, particularly in the piece Ouroboros. Here I use a short range FM transmitter and various radios as sound sources. These are picked up by a central microphone and fed into the transmitter... hence the loop. I play this as an "instrument" by changing the proximity, tuning etc. of the radios. Of course the acoustical characteristics of the room are paramount important. And sometimes the audience plays around with the radios which adds a nice touch. By adding a small delay I can keep amplitude spikes out of the system. I generally use a laptop for this as I can then record using the same device. If I had a foot-pedal or two they would do the job as well. The nice thing is the volume doesn't need to be too loud to achieve a smooth state. Analogue is definitely the way to go for any component you wish to use expressively. Radios with digital tuning suck! Getting good recordings of such environments is difficult and low on my priority list. Creating a living sound field in which people can situate themselves is much more important to me. Maybe if I someday do a multichannel recording I might be able to get a useful approximation of the live setting in a series of PCM files. Some details at remanence.robinparmar.com/listen.html -- Robin Parmar From berserma at yahoo.es Mon Dec 20 06:23:04 2010 From: berserma at yahoo.es (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Marcos_Bernab=E9?=) Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 11:23:04 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <985232.71130.qm@web29518.mail.ird.yahoo.com> hi! just yesterday we released a work about it: http://www.tecnonucleo.org/index.php?page=release&release=25 I hope you like it! marcos www.tecnonucleo.org ________________________________ De: Sofus Forsberg Para: microsound at microsound.org Enviado: mar,14 diciembre, 2010 15:24 Asunto: Re: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" My Ensoniq DP-4 got busted some years ago, from making feedback with it. Now it ONLY distorts, so you can damage your gear from making feedback loops with it. I also thought that it was impossible, but i guess you can fuck up the input step somehow... :D > From: "Andrew C. Smith" > Reply-To: > Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 09:00:01 -0500 > To: , > Cc: Nic Freed > Subject: Re: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" > > Nakamura came to play in Brooklyn a few months back, and actually had a whole > rack mount setup with digital reverb and all kinds of effects. Sort of a > surprise, to me anyway (I'm only a little familiar with his music), but it was > interesting how the feeding back mixer was juxtaposed with this totally stock, > everyday digital reverb sound. > > Also, you may just want to try asking around and seeing if you can borrow a > cheap mixer and patch cables from anyone. To my knowledge, no-input feedback > can't ruin a board, and most pros (even most amateurs) have a few extra small > mixers sitting around. If you try a few out you may know better what to look > for when you go to the music shop. > > Since no one else said it yet: don't use headphones. > > Good luck. > > Andrew > > On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Michal Seta wrote: > >> You could probably get a Behringer 8 channel mixer for less than a >> 100$ at your local music equipment store. Those are totally useless >> for pro-audio but they should fit your needs. Of course you also need >> a lot of patch cords. You may want to check your nearest electronics >> surplus store, they may have good deals on cables (maybe even some >> amateur mixing boards!). Just make sure that when you are buying a >> mixer to use as a musical instrument, there are more outputs than just >> Main Out (hopefully Aux and/or Fx and maybe even direct out) for >> increased flexibility of routing signals. >> >> Here's one good deal for a Behringer: >> http://bit.ly/f4JPqy >> >> You could also check some local classifieds listings but I would >> advise that when you buy this kind of stuff (especially online or >> through an ad) you do it with an adult, hopefully someone who >> understands your needs and what you are buying to some extent. >> >> Cheers. >> >> ./MiS >> >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Nic Freed >> wrote: >>> Thank you very much for replying so fast! I do like Larseneurs, but I do not >>> speak french, so I do not know how much I can use their site :( >>> You explained that very well, and now that I understand, I am very anxious >>> to try ;) >>> If you don't mind my asking, where might I get a cheap mixing board with an >>> input and output? Maybe somewhere on ebay or something? >>> Thanks again! >>> --Nic >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:49 PM, Michal Seta wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Nic, >>>> >>>> The base idea behind the no input mixing board is that a mixing board >>>> is never perfectly silent. It is then expected that when you plug its >>>> output to its input, the inherent noise (or hum) that is within the >>>> system will quickly start adding itself up and you will be able to >>>> build a feedback loop. Most mixers have pre-amps built in which can >>>> greatly help you build the sound faster (and they will add a little >>>> bit of noise to the signal as well). You can then use the EQ knobs to >>>> shape the resulting signal. >>>> >>>> Some mixing boards come with built-in effects so you could very easily >>>> start sculpting very intricate soundscapes but if you want to be true >>>> to Nakamura you should use a plain mixing board with only controls >>>> being volume, gain and some EQ (usually just 3 knobs on simple boards: >>>> treble, mid and bass). Note that having multiple mixing strips and >>>> ways of cross-connecting them gives you an advantage (most mixers will >>>> have auxiliary inputs and outputs which you can exploit to make cross >>>> connections between different strips). >>>> >>>> Getting a cheap mixing board will bring you quick instant >>>> gratification because those will usually have higher signal to noise >>>> ratio. You will be feeding back in no time. >>>> >>>> If such minimal meas of noise making interest you, you may also be >>>> interested in Larseneurs (http://www.larseneur.net/NewsENG.php). The >>>> idea being that you simply use a computer and let the sound pass >>>> directly from your microphone input straight to the output. Your only >>>> control is input volume. Your sounds will greatly depend on the >>>> ambient noise. >>>> >>>> Happy feedback! >>>> >>>> ./MiS >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Nic Freed >>>> wrote: >>>>> Hello :) >>>>> I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura >>>>> recently, >>>>> with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would like to learn >>>>> more >>>>> about it. From what I understand, the output of the board is connected >>>>> to >>>>> the input... but if so, where does the initial sound causing the >>>>> feedback >>>>> come from? I would like to try this myself, once I understand it better, >>>>> so >>>>> I was also wondering about what I would need to purchase to create >>>>> something >>>>> with this method. >>>>> I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and >>>>> something to >>>>> create sound, like a function generator? I would probably try and get it >>>>> for >>>>> my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x >>>>> Thank you very much, in advance! >>>>> --Nic >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> microsound mailing list >>>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> microsound mailing list >>>> microsound at microsound.org >>>> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound _______________________________________________ microsound mailing list microsound at microsound.org http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From studio at earphone.org Fri Dec 24 12:29:34 2010 From: studio at earphone.org (Marc McNulty) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 12:29:34 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D14D87E.6030703@earphone.org> Hi Nic, You may want to check out the work of Arcane Device (David Lee Myers): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcane_Device His work is completely built of feedback loops with the inclusion of some delay to create long loops that change in the dynamics. It is my understanding he he either built or modified his hardware to suit his needs, which is always a good sign. :) Cheers, Marc http://www.marcmcnulty.org On 12/13/10 11:14 PM, Nic Freed wrote: > Hello :) > > I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura > recently, with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would > like to learn more about it. From what I understand, the output of the > board is connected to the input... but if so, where does the initial > sound causing the feedback come from? I would like to try this myself, > once I understand it better, so I was also wondering about what I > would need to purchase to create something with this method. > > I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and > something to create sound, like a function generator? I would probably > try and get it for my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x > > Thank you very much, in advance! > > --Nic > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -- : marc mcnulty : earphone [netlabel] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From studio at earphone.org Fri Dec 24 12:36:20 2010 From: studio at earphone.org (Marc McNulty) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 12:36:20 -0500 Subject: [microsound] "No Input Mixing Board" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D14DA14.1000106@earphone.org> Nic, Here is an excellent site of Arcane Device (David Lee Myers). It's the primary source for him: http://www.pulsewidth.com/ Cheers, Marc http://www.marcmcnulty.org On 12/13/10 11:14 PM, Nic Freed wrote: > Hello :) > > I have become very interested in the works of Toshimaru Nakamura > recently, with his self-named "No-Input Mixing Board", and I would > like to learn more about it. From what I understand, the output of the > board is connected to the input... but if so, where does the initial > sound causing the feedback come from? I would like to try this myself, > once I understand it better, so I was also wondering about what I > would need to purchase to create something with this method. > > I am 15 years old and without a job, so maybe a cheap mixer and > something to create sound, like a function generator? I would probably > try and get it for my birthday, so it can't be too expensive :x > > Thank you very much, in advance! > > --Nic > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -- : marc mcnulty : earphone [netlabel] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From soundworksunlimited at ireland.com Mon Dec 27 13:04:47 2010 From: soundworksunlimited at ireland.com (Soundworks Unlimited) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 19:04:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: [microsound] Just Listening Ireland Calling Message-ID: <306007898.344851293473087983.JavaMail.root@ir-mbox02> Just Listening ? Ireland Calling is an open and invited submission event being organised as part of Just Listen to showcase new and emerging work by Irish or Irish-resident sound artists and improvising artists/musicians. The showcase will be performed live in the LSAD Gallery, Limerick School of Art & Design, LIT Clare Street Campus, Limerick on Saturday April 30TH before a public audience and a number of invited international curators. Applicants are invited to submit work to justlisten at ireland.com or by post clearly marked Just Listen, National Sculpture Factory, Albert Road, Cork Ireland either as audio CD, DVD or MP3. No other formats will be accepted. The selected artist must be available to perform a live work in Limerick on this date. Incomplete applications will not be considered. Receipt of works will not be acknowledged. Please include a stamped addressed envelope if you wish to have your application material returned. Submissions must be received by 12 noon Monday January 20th 2011. No late submissions will be considered REQUIREMENTS of the sound work Name and duration of work Short description of work(s) maximum 100 word(optional) Short Biography of the author, maximum 200 words The works should be NOT longer than 10 minutes Maximum 2 works per artist 6. Sound files in MP3 FORMAT only will be accepted for download. Applicants may also submit this material as audio CD by post. (please mark all material ?Just Listen- NSF?) In case of files larger than 25 MG, we recommend to open a Mydrive account http://www.mydrive.ch/ (for free) and send us an E-mail with User and Password to download the file(s). Works will be assessed by a curatorial panel including: Bernard Clarke: Lyric Fm RTE Sean Taylor: Artist/ Co-Curator ? Just Listen Danny McCarthy: Artist/Co-Curator ? Just Listen Dobz O?Brien: Programme Manager National Sculpture Factory Just Listen is a sound art event initiated by the National Sculpture Factory across various venues and sites across Cork and Limerick April /May 201. Just Listen will include installations, performances, talks, workshops events and concerts. Invited artists include: David Toop, Anne Bean, Pauline Oliveros, Eric Leonardson and Stephen Vitiello Curated by Danny McCarthy and Sean Taylor -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at maxviel.it Mon Dec 27 14:07:23 2010 From: mail at maxviel.it (Massimiliano Viel) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 20:07:23 +0100 Subject: [microsound] microsound in Berlin? In-Reply-To: <4BF5B0DC.4020701@tech-no-mad.net> References: <4BF5B0DC.4020701@tech-no-mad.net> Message-ID: <0D1A8268-F859-4662-A3C3-26A3207F12E1@maxviel.it> Hi everybody! I'll be in Berlin from january 1st to 5th... any suggestion on concerts, events etc is welcome! cheers Massimiliano __________________________________ M a s s i m i l i a n o V i e l MAIN SITE! -------------> http://www.maxviel.it BLOG! -------> http://maxviel.wordpress.com/ http://www.myspace.com/massimilianoviel http://www.ssim-el.net http://www.otolab.net http://www.sincronie.org __________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From list at isjtar.org Mon Dec 27 16:16:26 2010 From: list at isjtar.org (isjtar) Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2010 22:16:26 +0100 Subject: [microsound] microsound in Berlin? In-Reply-To: <0D1A8268-F859-4662-A3C3-26A3207F12E1@maxviel.it> References: <4BF5B0DC.4020701@tech-no-mad.net> <0D1A8268-F859-4662-A3C3-26A3207F12E1@maxviel.it> Message-ID: <8463F4DC-9A1A-4B6A-B4EE-624E6340BA74@isjtar.org> check out nkprojekt http://www.nkprojekt.de/ On 27 Dec 2010, at 20:07, Massimiliano Viel wrote: > Hi everybody! > I'll be in Berlin from january 1st to 5th... any suggestion on concerts, events etc is welcome! > > cheers > > Massimiliano > > > __________________________________ > M a s s i m i l i a n o V i e l > MAIN SITE! -------------> http://www.maxviel.it > BLOG! -------> http://maxviel.wordpress.com/ > http://www.myspace.com/massimilianoviel > > http://www.ssim-el.net > http://www.otolab.net > http://www.sincronie.org > __________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulo.mouat at gmail.com Mon Dec 27 20:38:49 2010 From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 09:38:49 +0800 Subject: [microsound] Just Listening Ireland Calling In-Reply-To: <306007898.344851293473087983.JavaMail.root@ir-mbox02> References: <306007898.344851293473087983.JavaMail.root@ir-mbox02> Message-ID: As per the list directives clearly noted at microsound.org: if you want to post an *announcement* concerning: - upcoming concerts - music releases - podcasts - music reviews - concert/event reviews - calls for work - calls for submissions to contests or competitions - for sale lists - anything that's not aesthetic discussion please subscribe to the microsound-announce list and post it there. Thanks, The microsound list admins On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 2:04 AM, Soundworks Unlimited < soundworksunlimited at ireland.com> wrote: > Just Listening ? Ireland Calling is an open and invited submission event > being organised as part of Just Listen to showcase new and emerging work by > Irish or Irish-resident sound artists and improvising artists/musicians. > The showcase will be performed live in the LSAD Gallery, Limerick School of > Art & Design, LIT Clare Street Campus, Limerick on Saturday April 30TH > before a public audience and a number of invited international curators. > Applicants are invited to submit work to justlisten at ireland.com or by post > clearly marked Just Listen, National Sculpture Factory, Albert Road, Cork > Ireland either as audio CD, DVD or MP3. > No other formats will be accepted. The selected artist must be available to > perform a live work in Limerick on this date. Incomplete applications will > not be considered. Receipt of works will not be acknowledged. Please include > a stamped addressed envelope if you wish to have your application material > returned. > Submissions must be received by 12 noon Monday January 20th 2011. > No late submissions will be considered > *REQUIREMENTS of the sound work > Name and duration of work > Short description of work(s) maximum 100 word(optional) > Short Biography of the author, maximum 200 words > The works should be NOT longer than 10 minutes > Maximum 2 works per artist > 6. Sound files in MP3 FORMAT only will be accepted for download. > > *Applicants may also submit this material as audio CD by post. (please > mark all material ?Just Listen- NSF?) In case of files larger than 25 MG, we > recommend to open a Mydrive account http://www.mydrive.ch/ (for free) and > send us an E-mail with User and Password to download the file(s). > Works will be assessed by a curatorial panel including: > Bernard Clarke: Lyric Fm RTE > Sean Taylor: Artist/ Co-Curator ? Just Listen > Danny McCarthy: Artist/Co-Curator ? Just Listen > Dobz O?Brien: Programme Manager National Sculpture Factory > > Just Listen is a sound art event initiated by the National Sculpture > Factory across various venues and sites across Cork and Limerick April /May > 201. Just Listen will include installations, performances, talks, workshops > events and concerts. > > *Invited artists include: David Toop, Anne Bean, Pauline Oliveros, Eric > Leonardson and Stephen Vitiello > Curated by Danny McCarthy and Sean Taylor > * > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: