From Jim at spacestudios.org.uk Sat Sep 12 06:43:06 2009 From: Jim at spacestudios.org.uk (Jim Prevett) Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 11:43:06 +0100 Subject: [microsound] controller interface our of a log Message-ID: Hi, some of you might be interested in this quirky and fun controller built from logs. Owl Project - mLog: a hand-held wooden controller interface http://www.owlproject.com/ They are doing a workshop in helping people design and build their very own log contoller... Definitely a future collectors item! http://mlogworkshop.eventbrite.com/ Jim From kim at anechoicmedia.com Tue Sep 15 02:12:07 2009 From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:12:07 -0700 Subject: [microsound] musical structure Message-ID: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? From info at aevox.be Tue Sep 15 02:25:00 2009 From: info at aevox.be (Info ( Aevox )) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:25:00 +0200 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: <002b01ca35cd$426abe20$6401a8c0@celeron3ghz> Before starting with a new laptop composition i put importance in choosing the right program or combinations of programms. The structure of the program has a certain amount of influence in the actual output. Further it depends if the piece has a technological startingpoint, or is more inbedded in a traditional (altough contemporary) background. In other words: is the laptop a kind of studio with a lot of possibilities but in the traditional sence, or is it by itself a musical instrument (and i don't mean software synthesizers etc, but as machine) Johan Vandermaelen -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: microsound-bounces at or8.net [mailto:microsound-bounces at or8.net] Namens Kim Cascone Verzonden: dinsdag 15 september 2009 8:12 Aan: microsound_list Onderwerp: [microsound] musical structure I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? _______________________________________________ microsound mailing list microsound at microsound.org http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From info at aevox.be Tue Sep 15 02:25:00 2009 From: info at aevox.be (Info ( Aevox )) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:25:00 +0200 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: <002b01ca35cd$426abe20$6401a8c0@celeron3ghz> Before starting with a new laptop composition i put importance in choosing the right program or combinations of programms. The structure of the program has a certain amount of influence in the actual output. Further it depends if the piece has a technological startingpoint, or is more inbedded in a traditional (altough contemporary) background. In other words: is the laptop a kind of studio with a lot of possibilities but in the traditional sence, or is it by itself a musical instrument (and i don't mean software synthesizers etc, but as machine) Johan Vandermaelen -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: microsound-bounces at or8.net [mailto:microsound-bounces at or8.net] Namens Kim Cascone Verzonden: dinsdag 15 september 2009 8:12 Aan: microsound_list Onderwerp: [microsound] musical structure I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? _______________________________________________ microsound mailing list microsound at microsound.org http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From Philippe-Petit at wanadoo.fr Tue Sep 15 03:05:55 2009 From: Philippe-Petit at wanadoo.fr (Philippe-Petit) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:05:55 +0200 Subject: [microsound] plug ins for Logic? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51038868-438D-44F7-8DFE-400E2F88E45E@wanadoo.fr> hope you are well unfortunately my system died and I lost tons of things... right now wondering if anyone could share or know where I could download free/cracked Logic plug ins for Mac OS X 10.5.8? in advance thanx for your help philippe www.myspace.com/philippepetit http://www.myspace.com/lunchp http://www.myspace.com/jjandpp www.bip-hop.com www.pandemoniumrecords.com www.myspace.com/stringsofconsciousness -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From artheist at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 03:25:28 2009 From: artheist at gmail.com (Sylvain) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:25:28 +0200 Subject: [microsound] plug ins for Logic? In-Reply-To: <51038868-438D-44F7-8DFE-400E2F88E45E@wanadoo.fr> References: <51038868-438D-44F7-8DFE-400E2F88E45E@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <4AAF4168.3040402@gmail.com> Hi Philippe, You should find nice stuff there : http://smartelectronix.com/ there : http://www.freeaudioplugins.com/ and there : http://www.ixi-software.net/content/software.html (I recommend ixiquarks) Cheers Sylvain Philippe-Petit a ?crit : > hope you are well > unfortunately my system died and I lost tons of things... > right now wondering if anyone could share or know where I could > download free/cracked Logic plug ins for Mac OS X 10.5.8? > in advance thanx for your help > philippe > > _www.myspace.com/philippepetit_ > _http://www.myspace.com/lunchp_ > _http://www.myspace.com/jjandpp_ > _www.bip-hop.com_ > _www.pandemoniumrecords.com_ > _www.myspace.com/stringsofconsciousness_ > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > From tobiasreber at sunrise.ch Tue Sep 15 03:34:21 2009 From: tobiasreber at sunrise.ch (Tobias Reber) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:34:21 +0200 Subject: [microsound] plug ins for Logic? In-Reply-To: <4AAF4168.3040402@gmail.com> References: <51038868-438D-44F7-8DFE-400E2F88E45E@wanadoo.fr> <4AAF4168.3040402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2A3749A5-21DE-4990-B17D-376A68FA07C3@sunrise.ch> there's also http://www.kvraudio.com/ Am 15.09.2009 um 09:25 schrieb Sylvain: > Hi Philippe, > > You should find nice stuff there : http://smartelectronix.com/ > there : http://www.freeaudioplugins.com/ > and there : http://www.ixi-software.net/content/software.html > (I recommend ixiquarks) > > Cheers > > Sylvain > > Philippe-Petit a ?crit : >> hope you are well >> unfortunately my system died and I lost tons of things... right now >> wondering if anyone could share or know where I could download free/ >> cracked Logic plug ins for Mac OS X 10.5.8? >> in advance thanx for your help >> philippe >> >> _www.myspace.com/philippepetit_ > philippepetit> >> _http://www.myspace.com/lunchp_ >> _http://www.myspace.com/jjandpp_ >> _www.bip-hop.com_ >> _www.pandemoniumrecords.com_ >> _www.myspace.com/stringsofconsciousness_ > > >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound --- Tobias Reber : musician / sound designer Tobias Reber Freiburgstrasse 32 2503 Biel Switzerland mobile: ++41 (0)79 573 11 69 email: tobiasreber at sunrise.ch www.myspace.com/stereorabbi From gshapley at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 04:25:47 2009 From: gshapley at gmail.com (Greg Shapley) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:25:47 +1000 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: <951a77c60909150125v4cf690b1hd0e9d41725e35a1b@mail.gmail.com> I'm just doing some research into this at present and would be happy to share my findings, but will probably be a few more weeks (or months). Of particular interest to me is how closely structural devices that artists use mirror the perceived structures of pieces. I would be interested in answers to Kim's question though. Greg Shapley From pereshaped at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 05:31:23 2009 From: pereshaped at gmail.com (Pereshaped) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:31:23 +0200 Subject: [microsound] Re : musical structure Message-ID: I tend to store musical gestures, fragments, I have evolved or composed over the years which I can then pick out at a given moment. It is a dictionary, lexicon of sounds with a particular sound identity, which is me I suppose. I go for particular types of sounds and articulations I go for textures and sounds which are microsonic in nature, though they could be derived from traditional instruments and articulations aswell Most of the cells come from working with previous technologies starting with an old dusty Yamaha CX5M, now transferred to newer machines, my Macbook and Nord G2 for example. But the cells, basis of the work are re-used in what I consider to be the aural context at the moment. The only thing that I have to do with this approach is to make sure the data decay doesn;t go to far, as on occasions I have had to write special programs to retrieve from one data format to another. Pere 2009/9/15 : > Send microsound mailing list submissions to > ? ? ? ?microsound at or8.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ? ? ? ?http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ? ? ? ?microsound-request at or8.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ? ? ? ?microsound-owner at or8.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of microsound digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? 1. .microsound 10th Anniversary (Kim Cascone) > ? 2. FW ports on new macbooks (Agxivatein) > ? 3. Re: FW ports on new macbooks (Joseph Misra) > ? 4. Re: FW ports on new macbooks (Charles Turner) > ? 5. Venues in Vilnius (Laura Mello) > ? 6. how to use jitter presets in lloopp / jitter ? ? ?installation > ? ? ?glitch (guiver ben) > ? 7. controller interface our of a log (Jim Prevett) > ? 8. musical structure (Kim Cascone) > ? 9. Re: musical structure (Info ( Aevox )) > ?10. Re: musical structure (Info ( Aevox )) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:35:32 -0700 > From: Kim Cascone > To: microsound_list , ? ? ? ".microsound list - main" > ? ? ? ? > Subject: [microsound] .microsound 10th Anniversary > Message-ID: <4A8C1BC4.60306 at anechoicmedia.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > just checking in to see how plans are coming along for the various > celebrations planned...can people update the Wiki if they haven't already? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:26:47 +0300 > From: Agxivatein > To: microsound2 > Subject: [microsound] FW ports on new macbooks > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > HI, > > I was wandering if new macbook pros are compatible with firewire 400 > machines, as they only have a firewire 800 port ?? > if so, I guess there should exist a cable from fw800 to fw400 right ?? > > thx > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:28:29 -0500 > From: Joseph Misra > To: "microsound at microsound.org" > Subject: Re: [microsound] FW ports on new macbooks > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; ? ? ? charset=us-ascii; ? ? ? format=flowed; ?delsp=yes > > Yes, there are adapters that work fine. > > > > On Aug 19, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Agxivatein wrote: > >> HI, >> >> I was wandering if new macbook pros are compatible with firewire 400 >> machines, as they only have a firewire 800 port ?? >> if so, I guess there should exist a cable from fw800 to fw400 right ?? >> >> thx >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:08:53 -0400 > From: Charles Turner > To: microsound at microsound.org > Subject: Re: [microsound] FW ports on new macbooks > Message-ID: <8C16B17E-8967-4010-AFC5-3D575E828068 at optonline.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > On Aug 19, 2009, at 2:26 PM, Agxivatein wrote: > >> if so, I guess there should exist a cable from fw800 to fw400 right ?? > > Yes. Amazon has some Sonnet adapters that are pretty cheap: $10-12US. > Cables are more expensive. Just moved the disk image from a Mac Mimi > to a MacBook Pro via fw400 drive interfaces and a 400->800 adapter > cable. Nary a hitch... > > C > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:23:31 +0200 > From: "Laura Mello" > To: microsound at or8.net > Subject: [microsound] Venues in Vilnius > Message-ID: <20090823132331.77310 at gmx.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear microsounders in and from the east: > > I?ll be from tomorrow till the 5.09 in Vilnius, does anybody have any microsound hint for the time? > > Thank you in advance and best sound waves (still) from Berlin > Laura > -- > www.lauramello.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:12:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: guiver ben > To: microsound at microsound.org > Subject: [microsound] how to use jitter presets in lloopp / jitter > ? ? ? ?installation glitch > Message-ID: <854394.25838.qm at web52002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > >> hi All, >> >> sorry but i need some help / advice... >> >> 1. >> i'm running 10.4.7 os with max 4.6.2 runtime and lloopp, >> sorry i think its 1.4, on my mac g4 quicksilver.? >> >> i am having a similar time to the one i had learning to use >> lloopp - intially very hard work and unable to get anything >> really running properly. i've loaded up jitter display and >> p;layer but am unable to patch player into display. any >> helpful hints / advice would be most appreciated so i can >> get started. >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> 2. >> also, i've managed to load up lloopp onto my mates newer >> macbook which he is presently using with audio. however, >> when i try to install jitter 1.6 runtime the machine tells >> me that i have to have a newer version of max installed and >> it wont let me install jitter! i have installed 4.6.3 onto >> his machine and he's using it, so its frustrating - has >> anyone else had this kind of glitch / problem / mistake >> please? as he's into video and i'd like him to be able to >> use the jitter patches / modules in lloopp also. >> >> its also wierd as on my g4 jitter seemed to install as part >> of max, at least it opens up when i open up lloopp after >> loading up the max runtime. >> >> best to all >> >> ben guiver >> >> --- On Sun, 8/9/09, klaus filip >> wrote: >> >> > From: klaus filip >> > Subject: Re: [Lloopp] lloopp - save an environment >> > To: lloopp at klingt.org >> > Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 12:37 PM >> > >> > On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:51 PM, Thomas Riedl wrote: >> > >> > > ahoi! >> > > >> > > i?m working here on a G4, OSX 10.4.11 and lloopp >> 1.6 >> > with max/msp 4.63 >> > > >> > > my problems on saving environments are: >> > > >> > > 1. when i saved an environment and then try to >> reload >> > it always "modul.ator_1" loses it saved >> > "frequency-setting". >> > > I always have to reload the environment a second >> time. >> > Can I do something against this "double-loading"? >> > > >> > this also happened to me sometimes, depending on the >> > environment. >> > i am afraid, you have to live with double loading. >> > > 2. many times my saved environments lose some >> > audiohardware-routings in some acts. what can i do? >> > double loading does not help here? >> > if the routings are stored properly (you coud maybe >> look >> > into the environment text file..) it should be loaded >> at >> > least at the >> > second time. >> > the reason for this behaviour is, that some >> audio-ports are >> > not present after the first envi-loading - a matter of >> the >> > right sequence of loaded acts. >> > >> > sorry for no better fix >> > klaus >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > thx for spending some time on help! >> > > >> > > >> > > qirx >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Lloopp mailing list >> > > Lloopp at klingt.org >> > > http://klingt.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lloopp >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Lloopp mailing list >> > Lloopp at klingt.org >> > http://klingt.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lloopp >> > >> >> >> >> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 11:43:06 +0100 > From: "Jim Prevett" > To: > Subject: [microsound] controller interface our of a log > Message-ID: > ? ? ? ? > > Content-Type: text/plain; ? ? ? charset="us-ascii" > > Hi, > some of you might be interested in this quirky and fun controller built > from logs. > > Owl Project - mLog: a hand-held wooden controller interface > http://www.owlproject.com/ > They are doing a workshop in helping people design and build their very > own log contoller... Definitely a future collectors item! > http://mlogworkshop.eventbrite.com/ > > > Jim > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:12:07 -0700 > From: Kim Cascone > To: microsound_list > Subject: [microsound] musical structure > Message-ID: <4AAF3037.8060009 at anechoicmedia.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in > laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > > What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:25:00 +0200 > From: "Info \( Aevox \)" > To: , ? ? ? ?"'microsound_list'" > ? ? ? ? > Subject: Re: [microsound] musical structure > Message-ID: <002b01ca35cd$426abe20$6401a8c0 at celeron3ghz> > Content-Type: text/plain; ? ? ? charset="us-ascii" > > Before starting with a new laptop composition i put importance in choosing > the right program or combinations of programms. The structure of the program > has a certain amount of influence in the actual output. > Further it depends if the piece has a technological startingpoint, or is > more inbedded in a traditional (altough contemporary) background. > > In other words: is the laptop a kind of studio with a lot of possibilities > but in the traditional sence, or is it by itself a musical instrument (and i > don't mean software synthesizers etc, but as machine) > > Johan Vandermaelen > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: microsound-bounces at or8.net [mailto:microsound-bounces at or8.net] Namens > Kim Cascone > Verzonden: dinsdag 15 september 2009 8:12 > Aan: microsound_list > Onderwerp: [microsound] musical structure > > I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in > laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > > What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:25:00 +0200 > From: "Info \( Aevox \)" > To: , ? ? ? ?"'microsound_list'" > ? ? ? ? > Subject: Re: [microsound] musical structure > Message-ID: <002b01ca35cd$426abe20$6401a8c0 at celeron3ghz> > Content-Type: text/plain; ? ? ? charset="us-ascii" > > Before starting with a new laptop composition i put importance in choosing > the right program or combinations of programms. The structure of the program > has a certain amount of influence in the actual output. > Further it depends if the piece has a technological startingpoint, or is > more inbedded in a traditional (altough contemporary) background. > > In other words: is the laptop a kind of studio with a lot of possibilities > but in the traditional sence, or is it by itself a musical instrument (and i > don't mean software synthesizers etc, but as machine) > > Johan Vandermaelen > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: microsound-bounces at or8.net [mailto:microsound-bounces at or8.net] Namens > Kim Cascone > Verzonden: dinsdag 15 september 2009 8:12 > Aan: microsound_list > Onderwerp: [microsound] musical structure > > I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in > laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > > What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > End of microsound Digest, Vol 9, Issue 1 > **************************************** > From noisesmith at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 08:11:21 2009 From: noisesmith at gmail.com (Justin Glenn Smith) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 05:11:21 -0700 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: <4AAF8469.6020001@gmail.com> Kim Cascone wrote: > I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in > laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > > What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > For me, a large part of structuring a piece is the composition of the software, in csound, supercollider, or puredata. I consider these the languages I use to construct the programs I am using, the program itself is something I produce using one or more of these. There are very few programs I have used for performing more than one composition. The challenge is to construct something that is limited enough to give it a particular character, and general enough so that I am actually using the software in the live setting, and not just repeatedly pushing the button labeled "next movement". I like to use nonlinear and unpredictable algorithms with recursively feedback generated data, so often I will have an overall shape texturally in mind for each section of a piece I perform (usually written out in pencil on paper in an idiosyncratic notation), which I push the sounds my program is producing through. Currently I am reading Xenakis' "Formalized Music", which I recommend to anyone looking for compositional or programming ideas for electronic music. From roachboy at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 08:43:17 2009 From: roachboy at gmail.com (Stephen Hastings-King) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:43:17 -0400 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF8469.6020001@gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <4AAF8469.6020001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a5562340909150543m37dd34ado3a9d9dcc4acff389@mail.gmail.com> i'm largely an acoustic performer (prepared piano) but i work in various hybrid contexts (electro-acoustic, with dance, etc.). i use various means to organize pieces, but the consistent ones are rules/constraints and durations. i also treat recordings as compositions--the fact that a track has a fixed duration means that whatever unfolds within it has a structure. this comes straight from john cage: structure=duration. the constraints give a conceptual direction to a piece. (my favorite is make a hole and walk through it, but you can't do that one all the time.) the duration stipulations--the sequence of events---is the way a particular piece works with he overarching constraint. they are also themselves constraints, but locally oriented. the organization of events within a duration varies. prepared piano is largely about materials--what you use in the wires, what you use on the wires. so alot of events are about the exploring of possibilities opened up by the interaction of, say, a glass vase, the piano soundboard and the treatments that are between the wires in a particular area of the soundboard. most of the activity happens in a space of decay. in a mixed electronic/acoustic piece, i like having two sets of event sequences going simultaneously which pull the piece toward and away from scattering. i think the thresholds between the two are interesting to find and work with. with oulipo-style constraint systems, there's the principle o clinamen (swerve..it's from lucretius) which enables you to break them. if you find a cool threshold space, it's good to stay there a while. usually, if its a good night and the machinery is working, it's worth the chaos it generates in the frame. and the recording integrates these spaces of clinamen back into what they aren't. that's what i gots. stephen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From batuhan at batuhanbozkurt.com Tue Sep 15 09:21:06 2009 From: batuhan at batuhanbozkurt.com (Batuhan Bozkurt) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:21:06 +0300 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: I'm not a very experienced live coder myself, but the on-stage live coding has its own structural aesthetics especially if one wants to project his/her screen to some place for the (possibly non-programmer) audience to intellectually participate/consciously witness to the creation of the musical performance. Things usually start from very simple timbres and structural events to gradually more complex (so there is an increase in entropy in the musical/temporal events and the timbral quality) and since this is still quite a new field, the performances I've seen tend to follow the same pattern and not many groundbreaking differences in structure happen in between different performances and/or performers. Towards the end of the piece/performance, usually either the entropy decreases in the same manner or some sort of fading out trickery is involved (endings feel usually abrubt). I think this monotony in structure for live coding events is there because there aren't many virtuosic attempts on creating a really appealing live coding performance (which is also a valid attitude I think, but then some feel they'll be blamed less because they are trying something really extreme, an attitude I won't support), and the tools and the concept is quite new to performers and the audience. Maybe things will get more interesting at least varied when the computing culture rises among artists and listeners. I am not much into beat oriented stuff, but I find this live coding performance interesting and inspiring nonetheless (even though for some part it follows the same route I've explained earlier structurally, it also tries to alter the old habits in a nice way): http://yaxu.org/haskell-hack/ Best, Batuhan Bozkurt /* http://www.earslap.com */ On Sep 15, 2009, at 9:12 AM, Kim Cascone wrote: > I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in > laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > > What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From js0000 at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 09:21:48 2009 From: js0000 at gmail.com (john saylor) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:21:48 -0400 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Kim Cascone wrote: > What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? i tend use superimposed time-based layers. first in terms of big blocks for approximate major time divisions. then, within the more manageable scale of the smaller divisions, i consider the algorithms to fill them in. and i keep mindful of any inter-relationships among the other sections within the scale. my attention to detail increases as the scale decreases. -- \js [ - . . . ] From js0000 at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 09:21:48 2009 From: js0000 at gmail.com (john saylor) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:21:48 -0400 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 2:12 AM, Kim Cascone wrote: > What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? i tend use superimposed time-based layers. first in terms of big blocks for approximate major time divisions. then, within the more manageable scale of the smaller divisions, i consider the algorithms to fill them in. and i keep mindful of any inter-relationships among the other sections within the scale. my attention to detail increases as the scale decreases. -- \js [ - . . . ] From asalch at math.jhu.edu Tue Sep 15 10:48:17 2009 From: asalch at math.jhu.edu (Andrew Salch) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: By "structure" do you mean something that inheres in the work and is immediately detectable in it, e.g. compositional structure, or do you also include the entire means of production of the work--"structures" of production which can nevertheless fail to be detectable in the finished recorded work or in the performed piece as experienced by its audience? For example, the actual physical location at which a field recording was taken may not be recognizable or recoverable from the recording; is that particular physical location part of the "structure" used in creating the work? Sorry for the nitpicking--but I think this question of the types of structures in music is an interesting one. On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Kim Cascone wrote: > I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in laptop > music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > > What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > From mumixer at me.com Tue Sep 15 14:02:56 2009 From: mumixer at me.com (Bernhard Living) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:02:56 +0000 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: <164094344076080213238951829915273178233-Webmail@me.com> As a techno producer the question of structure is a very important one for me. The first question that I need to ask myself is for whom am I making the music? If it?s for a club/dance audience, then the track needs to be built up in a fairly formulaic way. If the track veers too far off from various accepted formula, then it cease to be techno - it also stops being danceable. If I?m making a track for an audience who is expecting something more experimental, then I will take more chances and push at the structural boundaries a lot more. Whatever I make, there is still going to be the four-on-the-floor beat (with only small variations), and the music is always built up in eight/sixteen bar sections. There?s a little rule; that is, make a minor change every eight bars, and do something a bit more dramatic every sixteen. It?s a simple and effective way to stop the listener from getting bored! For harder forms of techno, then the different sections or parts need to be fairly obvious and more dramatic. For minimal techno, then the changes in the structure should be barely noticeable, with the track slowly evolving and changing through progressive development. A minimal techno track should be built up in such a way that the listener isn?t fully aware that changes are taking place. I think ?Rotor? by Thomas Schumacher is a good example of this minimalist approach. When I think of structure in techno music, I often have in mind those beautiful metal box sculptures by the artist Donald Judd. b @ mu mixer On Tuesday, 15 September, 2009, at 06:12AM, "Kim Cascone" wrote: >I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in >laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > >What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? >_______________________________________________ >microsound mailing list >microsound at microsound.org >http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > From mumixer at me.com Tue Sep 15 14:18:30 2009 From: mumixer at me.com (Bernhard Living) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:18:30 +0000 Subject: [microsound] plug ins for Logic? In-Reply-To: <51038868-438D-44F7-8DFE-400E2F88E45E@wanadoo.fr> References: <51038868-438D-44F7-8DFE-400E2F88E45E@wanadoo.fr> Message-ID: <81546584103533491456570484334906994184-Webmail@me.com> Dear Phillippe You can download Free Alpha here. It?s a cut down version of the Lin Plug Alpha 3, and has a rich analog sound: http://www.kvraudio.com/get/36.html b @ mu mixer On Tuesday, 15 September, 2009, at 07:05AM, "Philippe-Petit" wrote: >_______________________________________________ >microsound mailing list >microsound at microsound.org >http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From traktorman at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 14:58:47 2009 From: traktorman at gmail.com (tkrakowiak) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:58:47 -0500 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <164094344076080213238951829915273178233-Webmail@me.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <164094344076080213238951829915273178233-Webmail@me.com> Message-ID: >What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? shifting/removing ADSR points -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From the.apx at libero.it Tue Sep 15 16:09:15 2009 From: the.apx at libero.it (Adern X) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:09:15 +0200 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: <20090915220915.2655877c@pigeon> On Mon, 14 Sep 2009 23:12:07 -0700, a Bad Day on the Midway, Kim Cascone wrote: > I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in > laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > > What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? In my work structure is defined by two elements: The samples (usually less than 5) filtered in various way, so 2 or 3 samples becames a pool of 20. The strategy of layer: one sample is the main loop (the canvas in pictorial terms), the others are used like lines of color or a huge mass of it. Think at a Rothko (or Mondrian or De Kooning) painting and you can have a visual explanation of the structure i use. Hi, A.X -- ( mailto: adern at libero.it http://www.xevor.net )) |""|-. http://www.myspace.com/adernx |__|-' "Boredom is the mother of creativity" (Ron Arad) From technohead3d at googlemail.com Tue Sep 15 17:28:24 2009 From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:28:24 +0100 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <20090915220915.2655877c@pigeon> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <20090915220915.2655877c@pigeon> Message-ID: <5badef3b0909151428w2228293dk6d183ac6e4aa2ee6@mail.gmail.com> A creative structure I like to employ is to have the music as it's own instrument a lot of the time. To overdub recycled source material/music alongside the original, untreated source material/music. To process and re-process, to extract and re-extract are my personal indulgences in rhythms that are not as obvious as a regular pulse along time, rather, more conceptual rhythms; the rhythm of the chain (including the "daisy chaining" of effects processors), the rhythm of the recycling; the rhythm of the feedback of the music as it's own instrument. Further to this structure, I like to contemplate potentially infinite recycling, remixing and results from one source, or, to go even deeper, infinite recycling from infinite sources, where such thoughts fill me with euphoric feelings that contribute to the blissful tones and atmospheres of some works. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From technohead3d at googlemail.com Tue Sep 15 17:28:24 2009 From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:28:24 +0100 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <20090915220915.2655877c@pigeon> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <20090915220915.2655877c@pigeon> Message-ID: <5badef3b0909151428w2228293dk6d183ac6e4aa2ee6@mail.gmail.com> A creative structure I like to employ is to have the music as it's own instrument a lot of the time. To overdub recycled source material/music alongside the original, untreated source material/music. To process and re-process, to extract and re-extract are my personal indulgences in rhythms that are not as obvious as a regular pulse along time, rather, more conceptual rhythms; the rhythm of the chain (including the "daisy chaining" of effects processors), the rhythm of the recycling; the rhythm of the feedback of the music as it's own instrument. Further to this structure, I like to contemplate potentially infinite recycling, remixing and results from one source, or, to go even deeper, infinite recycling from infinite sources, where such thoughts fill me with euphoric feelings that contribute to the blissful tones and atmospheres of some works. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cyborgk at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 11:37:12 2009 From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:37:12 -0500 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <5badef3b0909151428w2228293dk6d183ac6e4aa2ee6@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <20090915220915.2655877c@pigeon> <5badef3b0909151428w2228293dk6d183ac6e4aa2ee6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <686ba4e40909160837s3a01070exd1eca99e70790695@mail.gmail.com> Greetings, I use the same kinds of structures in my classical/jazz/experimental piano playing as I do in electro-acoustic laptop music. Types of structures I have used include: *post-serial/pseudo-mathematical /aleatoric: composition occurs within an artificial framework characterized my numerical constraints (as in my PI-day piece) *traditional classical (sonata, rondo, etc.) *harmonic cycles (jazz standards) *narrative/signifying: defining large segments of a piece that are intended to convey a general type of mood or idea (I associate these structures with Gustav Mahler and Charles Mingus especially) In more mnml, beat oriented music, I define structure us: 1. Plateaus: Generally consistent, repetitive sound structures that may or may not evolve slowly 2. Events: Singular, unique sounds or groups of sounds that only occur once, or a limited number of times Plateaus and Events may or may not occur simultaneously A typical structure for a dance record might be: Plateau - Event - Plateau I believe the Plateau/Event structure might also apply to other forms of repetitive, minimal, ritual types music, such as certain improvisations I do with acoustic musicians in a 'world jazz' type context. ~David On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Adam Davis wrote: > A creative structure I like to employ is to have the music as it's own > instrument a lot of the time. To overdub recycled source material/music > alongside the original, untreated source material/music. To process and > re-process, to extract and re-extract are my personal indulgences in rhythms > that are not as obvious as a regular pulse along time, rather, more > conceptual rhythms; the rhythm of the chain (including the "daisy chaining" > of effects processors), the rhythm of the recycling; the rhythm of the > feedback of the music as it's own instrument. Further to this structure, I > like to contemplate potentially infinite recycling, remixing and results > from one source, or, to go even deeper, infinite recycling from infinite > sources, where such thoughts fill me with euphoric feelings that contribute > to the blissful tones and atmospheres of some works. > > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > From flemminglyst at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 13:31:48 2009 From: flemminglyst at gmail.com (flemming lyst) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:31:48 +0200 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> i just use one sync point and let it flow... cheers, eske http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA4rW8UHyJc On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Kim Cascone wrote: > I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in laptop > music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > > What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cyborgk at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 17:38:35 2009 From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:38:35 -0500 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> More thoughts on musical structure--if I was to create a meta-theory of music, I would include the following elements: *cell: any single sonic idea that is used as the basis of a work (such as a melody, harmony, rhythm, digital sample) *permutation: repetition with difference of a cell *transition: a gradual shift from one musical element to another *rhythm: linear, cyclic, or aperiodic distribution of events in time *tone: cyclic vibration with frequency, duration, timbre, amplitude *harmony: simultaneous tones *melody: sequence of tones *noise: a-periodic vibration with duration, timbre, and amplitude *texture: the overall consistency of a stable sound-object *plateau: consistent, repetitive sound structure *constraint: a set of (mathematical) rules that govern a musical structure, such as a Raga, a chord progression, serial procedure, or aleatoric procedure *slope: a gradual transition from one plateau to another *event: sound-object that is perceived as being unique and whose arrival cannot be predicted by the listener *signifier: sound-object that seems to refer to some signified which may or may not be musical ~David Powers On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:31 PM, flemming lyst wrote: > i just use one sync point and let it flow... > > > cheers, > eske > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA4rW8UHyJc > > > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Kim Cascone wrote: >> >> I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in laptop >> music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). >> >> What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > From paulo.mouat at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 18:25:25 2009 From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:25:25 -0400 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> How would this qualify as a _meta_-theory? //p http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0 On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 5:38 PM, David Powers wrote: > More thoughts on musical structure--if I was to create a meta-theory > of music, I would include the following elements: > > *cell: any single sonic idea that is used as the basis of a work (such > as a melody, harmony, rhythm, digital sample) > *permutation: repetition with difference of a cell > *transition: a gradual shift from one musical element to another > *rhythm: linear, cyclic, or aperiodic distribution of events in time > *tone: cyclic vibration with frequency, duration, timbre, amplitude > *harmony: simultaneous tones > *melody: sequence of tones > *noise: a-periodic vibration with duration, timbre, and amplitude > *texture: the overall consistency of a stable sound-object > *plateau: consistent, repetitive sound structure > *constraint: a set of (mathematical) rules that govern a musical > structure, such as a Raga, a chord progression, serial procedure, or > aleatoric procedure > *slope: a gradual transition from one plateau to another > *event: sound-object that is perceived as being unique and whose > arrival cannot be predicted by the listener > *signifier: sound-object that seems to refer to some signified which > may or may not be musical > > ~David Powers > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:31 PM, flemming lyst > wrote: > > i just use one sync point and let it flow... > > > > > > cheers, > > eske > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA4rW8UHyJc > > > > > > > > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Kim Cascone > wrote: > >> > >> I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in > laptop > >> music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > >> > >> What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? > >> _______________________________________________ > >> microsound mailing list > >> microsound at microsound.org > >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > microsound mailing list > > microsound at microsound.org > > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cyborgk at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 18:48:29 2009 From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:48:29 -0500 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, that's not clear from my post, but you should be able to theorize about different particular musical theories, such as Western musical theory, Indian classical music theory, or jazz theory, with such a theory. But what I offered was not the actual theory, only some of the necessary elements such a theory might require, that seem relevant to the question of describing musical structure. Such an account would probably also need to take into account social ecology and neuroscientific accounts of how the brain works. All I'm basically aiming at is whether it is possible to talk about diverse musical structures from different traditions using some more comprehensive language than the language of traditional musical theories which tend to only describe the set of musical practices of a single culture or subculture. ~David On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Paulo Mouat wrote: > How would this qualify as a _meta_-theory? > //p > http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0 > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 5:38 PM, David Powers wrote: >> >> More thoughts on musical structure--if I was to create a meta-theory >> of music, I would include the following elements: >> >> *cell: any single sonic idea that is used as the basis of a work (such >> as a melody, harmony, rhythm, digital sample) >> *permutation: repetition with difference of a cell >> *transition: a gradual shift from one musical element to another >> *rhythm: linear, cyclic, or aperiodic distribution of events in time >> *tone: cyclic vibration with frequency, duration, timbre, amplitude >> *harmony: simultaneous tones >> *melody: sequence of tones >> *noise: a-periodic vibration with duration, timbre, and amplitude >> *texture: the overall consistency of a stable sound-object >> *plateau: consistent, repetitive sound structure >> *constraint: a set of (mathematical) rules that govern a musical >> structure, such as a Raga, a chord progression, serial procedure, or >> aleatoric procedure >> *slope: a gradual transition from one plateau to another >> *event: sound-object that is perceived as being unique and whose >> arrival cannot be predicted by the listener >> *signifier: sound-object that seems to refer to some signified which >> may or may not be musical >> >> ~David Powers >> >> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:31 PM, flemming lyst >> wrote: >> > i just use one sync point and let it flow... >> > >> > >> > cheers, >> > eske >> > >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA4rW8UHyJc >> > >> > >> > >> > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Kim Cascone >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in >> >> laptop >> >> music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). >> >> >> >> What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> microsound mailing list >> >> microsound at microsound.org >> >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > microsound mailing list >> > microsound at microsound.org >> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > From paulo.mouat at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 19:06:25 2009 From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:06:25 -0400 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> Yes it is possible. Just mix a generous dose of Schaeffer's _Trait? des objets musicaux_ with a pinch of Xenakis' _Formalized Music_ and Roads' _Microsound_ and you have everything you need. //p http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0 On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:48 PM, David Powers wrote: > All I'm basically aiming at is whether it is possible to talk about > diverse musical structures from different traditions using some more > comprehensive language than the language of traditional musical > theories which tend to only describe the set of musical practices of a > single culture or subculture. > > ~David > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Paulo Mouat > wrote: > > How would this qualify as a _meta_-theory? > > //p > > http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0 > > > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 5:38 PM, David Powers wrote: > >> > >> More thoughts on musical structure--if I was to create a meta-theory > >> of music, I would include the following elements: > >> > >> *cell: any single sonic idea that is used as the basis of a work (such > >> as a melody, harmony, rhythm, digital sample) > >> *permutation: repetition with difference of a cell > >> *transition: a gradual shift from one musical element to another > >> *rhythm: linear, cyclic, or aperiodic distribution of events in time > >> *tone: cyclic vibration with frequency, duration, timbre, amplitude > >> *harmony: simultaneous tones > >> *melody: sequence of tones > >> *noise: a-periodic vibration with duration, timbre, and amplitude > >> *texture: the overall consistency of a stable sound-object > >> *plateau: consistent, repetitive sound structure > >> *constraint: a set of (mathematical) rules that govern a musical > >> structure, such as a Raga, a chord progression, serial procedure, or > >> aleatoric procedure > >> *slope: a gradual transition from one plateau to another > >> *event: sound-object that is perceived as being unique and whose > >> arrival cannot be predicted by the listener > >> *signifier: sound-object that seems to refer to some signified which > >> may or may not be musical > >> > >> ~David Powers > >> > >> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 12:31 PM, flemming lyst > > >> wrote: > >> > i just use one sync point and let it flow... > >> > > >> > > >> > cheers, > >> > eske > >> > > >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cA4rW8UHyJc > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Kim Cascone > >> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in > >> >> laptop > >> >> music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > >> >> > >> >> What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> microsound mailing list > >> >> microsound at microsound.org > >> >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > microsound mailing list > >> > microsound at microsound.org > >> > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> microsound mailing list > >> microsound at microsound.org > >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > microsound mailing list > > microsound at microsound.org > > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cyborgk at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 19:32:42 2009 From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:32:42 -0500 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:48 PM, David Powers wrote: >> >> All I'm basically aiming at is whether it is possible to talk about >> diverse musical structures from different traditions using some more >> comprehensive language than the language of traditional musical >> theories which tend to only describe the set of musical practices of a >> single culture or subculture. >> >> ~David On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Paulo Mouat wrote: > Yes it is possible. Just mix a generous dose of Schaeffer's _Trait? des > objets musicaux_ with a pinch of Xenakis' _Formalized Music_ and Roads' > _Microsound_ and you have everything you need. REPLY: I don't think any of those theories include culture and semiotics, without which one could not understand, say, the music of Gustav Mahler or Charles Mingus. In fact I find Xanakis and Roads to be useful but extremely limited theoretically in terms of understanding music in general. Both concentrate on very narrow, particular subsets of musical practice rather than providing any kind of account of musical practice in general. Pierre Schaeffer?s work is likely more broad but it's unavailable in English so my awareness of what it covers is rather limited. I would be interested to learn more on Schaeffer's theories if you care to explain them. Following are some other potentially interesting theories of music of which I am aware. 1. I came across the following at the website of Marcus Bittencourt, http://www.music.columbia.edu/~alessi/research_prospects.html Sounds like he has some pretty interesting ideas. Here's what he writes on the page above: ***Begin Quote*** Following the work done in my DMA dissertation, I am planning a Treatise on Musical Structure and Form for an Experimental Electroacoustic Music. In the first part of such work, I would try to define and map the idea of what is Musical Form and Structure from a point of view that is disconnected from a particular musical tradition or culture. At the core of such work would be a thorough study of Pierre Schaeffer?s Trait? des Objets Musicaux (?ditions du Seuil, Paris, 1966), a very important and seminal work which is, unfortunately, still unavailable in English and therefore quite unknown in the USA. As a matter of fact, I have been studying for several years Schaeffer?s Trait? because of its strong syntony with my own ideas. Schaeffer?s work is an attempt to define what is Music and what belongs to the Musical realm in a basic primitive, archetypical level disconnected from Culture. His most important accomplishments are his phenomenological study of musical listening and perception, and his idea of a solfege of sound objects, which is based on an attempt of formalizing a Morphology and a Typology of sound objects. Some of my ideas for this Treatise have already been sketched in my doctoral dissertation at Columbia University. In that essay, I analyzed how musical structures could be developed in several levels. Basically, my ideas were focused in two fronts, first, a microscopic one, which I called a Musical System, defined as being a systematic series of filtrations of the continuums of information contained inside sound itself. The second front is a macroscopic one, Musical Form, which I claimed to be the result of a judicious application of Montage technique. Here, I often used concepts borrowed from Semiotics and Film Theory. For example, I used Serguei Eisenstein's Montage theory and Andrei Tarkovsky's concept of Time Pressure to explain my special notions of Musical Time and Musical Space. I believe most of my definitions and conclusions are correct but still at a very raw state. They are in need of clarification, further exploration and amplification. In the second part of the Treatise, I would deal with issues pertaining more directly to the field of Electroacoustic Music, which I view as the most important and promising medium for an Experimental Music, as defined in my dissertation essay. Armed with my seven intensive years of experience working with Computer Music, I would return once more to Schaeffer?s Trait?, this time to his breakdown of the "Electroacoustic Chain", and carefully explore and map all the main issues concerning the composition of Electroacoustic Music. First, I will work with the idea of a virtual electroacoustic lutherie, which will generalize concepts for sound pick-up, sound cataloguing, signal processing, and algorithmic composition. Second, I will propose general guidelines for an orchestration of sound objects, including a vertical orchestration (the study of simultaneities), as well as horizontal and spatial orchestrations. Finally, I will discuss sound diffusion/projection, spatialization, and Acousmatic listening. The main goal of the Treatise is to precise, at the most basic level, what are the Materials and Tools at the disposal of an Electroacoustic Music composer of the 21st century, and the nature, qualities, and possibilities of those elements, in other words, their "alchemical" properties. Regardless of aesthetic/cultural preferences, such studies would be important to anyone who wants to try to understand the nature of the organization of sounds as a form of artistic expression, and who wants to become proficient at thinking, understanding, manipulating and exploring the universe of sounds with the intention of creating Music. ***End Quote*** 2. Also particularly interesting might be this book: David Borgo. Sync or Swarm: Improvising Music in a Complex Age. "At once theoretical, practical, pedagogical, musical, and even autobiographical, Sync or Swarm is an attempt to blend contemporary science and psychology with the critical study of musical improvisation. For those who are not musically oriented, this text might seem intimidating at first given its expansive musical vocabulary, from the Phrygian mode to phase transition, and the range of musical references, from Anthony Braxton to Arnold Schoenberg..." 3. Finally, speaking of Anthony Braxton, he does have some ideas which are rather interesting about theory and ways to structure musical works. ~David From paulo.mouat at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 22:06:22 2009 From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:06:22 -0400 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <424ce300909161906y5b93ed2et9524f5f797d15c9@mail.gmail.com> My mention of Xenakis and Roads were simply to fill in some gaps in Schaeffer's treatise, which doesn't cover the use of computers, statistics and other generic mathematical tools in the shaping and analysis of music. These works are culture-agnostic and therefore not bound to particular musical practices, which I thought was what you were looking for. When talking about semiotics in music, Jean-Jacques Nattiez immediately springs to mind. //p http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0 On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 7:32 PM, David Powers wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:48 PM, David Powers wrote: > >> > >> All I'm basically aiming at is whether it is possible to talk about > >> diverse musical structures from different traditions using some more > >> comprehensive language than the language of traditional musical > >> theories which tend to only describe the set of musical practices of a > >> single culture or subculture. > >> > >> ~David > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Paulo Mouat > wrote: > > Yes it is possible. Just mix a generous dose of Schaeffer's _Trait? des > > objets musicaux_ with a pinch of Xenakis' _Formalized Music_ and Roads' > > _Microsound_ and you have everything you need. > > REPLY: > > I don't think any of those theories include culture and semiotics, > without which one could not understand, say, the music of Gustav > Mahler or Charles Mingus. In fact I find Xanakis and Roads to be > useful but extremely limited theoretically in terms of understanding > music in general. Both concentrate on very narrow, particular subsets > of musical practice rather than providing any kind of account of > musical practice in general. Pierre Schaeffer?s work is likely more > broad but it's unavailable in English so my awareness of what it > covers is rather limited. I would be interested to learn more on > Schaeffer's theories if you care to explain them. > > Following are some other potentially interesting theories of music of > which I am aware. > > 1. I came across the following at the website of Marcus Bittencourt, > http://www.music.columbia.edu/~alessi/research_prospects.html > > Sounds like he has some pretty interesting ideas. Here's what he > writes on the page above: > > ***Begin Quote*** > > Following the work done in my DMA dissertation, I am planning a > Treatise on Musical Structure and Form for an Experimental > Electroacoustic Music. > > In the first part of such work, I would try to define and > map the idea of what is Musical Form and Structure from a point of > view that is disconnected from a particular musical tradition or > culture. At the core of such work would be a thorough study of Pierre > Schaeffer?s Trait? des Objets Musicaux (?ditions du Seuil, Paris, > 1966), a very important and seminal work which is, unfortunately, > still unavailable in English and therefore quite unknown in the USA. > As a matter of fact, I have been studying for several years > Schaeffer?s Trait? because of its strong syntony with my own ideas. > Schaeffer?s work is an attempt to define what is Music and what > belongs to the Musical realm in a basic primitive, archetypical level > disconnected from Culture. His most important accomplishments are his > phenomenological study of musical listening and perception, and his > idea of a solfege of sound objects, which is based on an attempt of > formalizing a Morphology and a Typology of sound objects. > > Some of my ideas for this Treatise have already been > sketched in my doctoral dissertation at Columbia University. In that > essay, I analyzed how musical structures could be developed in several > levels. Basically, my ideas were focused in two fronts, first, a > microscopic one, which I called a Musical System, defined as being a > systematic series of filtrations of the continuums of information > contained inside sound itself. The second front is a macroscopic one, > Musical Form, which I claimed to be the result of a judicious > application of Montage technique. Here, I often used concepts borrowed > from Semiotics and Film Theory. For example, I used Serguei > Eisenstein's Montage theory and Andrei Tarkovsky's concept of Time > Pressure to explain my special notions of Musical Time and Musical > Space. I believe most of my definitions and conclusions are correct > but still at a very raw state. They are in need of clarification, > further exploration and amplification. > > In the second part of the Treatise, I would deal with > issues pertaining more directly to the field of Electroacoustic Music, > which I view as the most important and promising medium for an > Experimental Music, as defined in my dissertation essay. Armed with my > seven intensive years of experience working with Computer Music, I > would return once more to Schaeffer?s Trait?, this time to his > breakdown of the "Electroacoustic Chain", and carefully explore and > map all the main issues concerning the composition of Electroacoustic > Music. First, I will work with the idea of a virtual electroacoustic > lutherie, which will generalize concepts for sound pick-up, sound > cataloguing, signal processing, and algorithmic composition. Second, I > will propose general guidelines for an orchestration of sound objects, > including a vertical orchestration (the study of simultaneities), as > well as horizontal and spatial orchestrations. Finally, I will discuss > sound diffusion/projection, spatialization, and Acousmatic listening. > > The main goal of the Treatise is to precise, at the most > basic level, what are the Materials and Tools at the disposal of an > Electroacoustic Music composer of the 21st century, and the nature, > qualities, and possibilities of those elements, in other words, their > "alchemical" properties. Regardless of aesthetic/cultural preferences, > such studies would be important to anyone who wants to try to > understand the nature of the organization of sounds as a form of > artistic expression, and who wants to become proficient at thinking, > understanding, manipulating and exploring the universe of sounds with > the intention of creating Music. > > ***End Quote*** > > 2. Also particularly interesting might be this book: David Borgo. Sync > or Swarm: Improvising Music in a Complex Age. > > "At once theoretical, practical, pedagogical, musical, and even > autobiographical, Sync or Swarm is an attempt to blend contemporary > science and psychology with the critical study of musical > improvisation. For those who are not musically oriented, this text > might seem intimidating at first given its expansive musical > vocabulary, from the Phrygian mode to phase transition, and the range > of musical references, from Anthony Braxton to Arnold Schoenberg..." > > 3. Finally, speaking of Anthony Braxton, he does have some ideas which > are rather interesting about theory and ways to structure musical > works. > > ~David > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noisesmith at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 03:16:29 2009 From: noisesmith at gmail.com (Justin Glenn Smith) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 00:16:29 -0700 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB1E24D.7060902@gmail.com> David Powers wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:48 PM, David Powers wrote: >>> All I'm basically aiming at is whether it is possible to talk about >>> diverse musical structures from different traditions using some more >>> comprehensive language than the language of traditional musical >>> theories which tend to only describe the set of musical practices of a >>> single culture or subculture. >>> >>> ~David > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Paulo Mouat wrote: >> Yes it is possible. Just mix a generous dose of Schaeffer's _Trait? des >> objets musicaux_ with a pinch of Xenakis' _Formalized Music_ and Roads' >> _Microsound_ and you have everything you need. > > REPLY: > > I don't think any of those theories include culture and semiotics, > without which one could not understand, say, the music of Gustav > Mahler or Charles Mingus. In fact I find Xanakis and Roads to be > useful but extremely limited theoretically in terms of understanding > music in general. Both concentrate on very narrow, particular subsets > of musical practice rather than providing any kind of account of > musical practice in general. My take on this is theory is not necessary if you already know the practice. Xenakis and Roads are most useful if you want to expand existing musical definitions and forms. If you don't want to do that, then you will learn much more by practicing the existing forms within the culture and native praxis of those forms than you will from an abstracted theory of it. In other words, for me, theory is best suited for discovering the places where practices could exist but does not yet; the practices themselves will be more useful when those practices exist. Or, put another way, I learn music from the practice of music, I learn theory to learn what the practice of music could become. From robin at robinparmar.com Thu Sep 17 09:32:27 2009 From: robin at robinparmar.com (Robin Parmar) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 06:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [microsound] musical structure Message-ID: <657456.26664.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> David Powers wrote: > In fact I find Xanakis and Roads to be useful but > extremely limited theoretically in terms of > understanding music in general. Both concentrate > on very narrow, particular subsets of musical > practice rather than providing any kind of account of > musical practice in general. All they set out to do is describe and formalise practice in stochastic music and microsound respectively. I do not think either attempts a general understanding of music, nor would I personally find such an approach that useful. > I would be interested to learn more on > Schaeffer's theories if you care to explain them. I am hardly the expert you need, since I have not read the work either. Apparently a translation is in process. I hazard that a good deal of it seems to be concerned with a formal typography of sonic material. If you are more interested in philosophical models then examine Schaeffer's four listening modes, which come about through two phenomenological reductions. The first is the "acousmatic reduction" that separates a sound object from its origin. The second is the process of "reduced listening", a close attention to a sound object designed to uncover its "essence". I position my work in opposition to this teleological pursuit. Thus it has been important for me to discover exactly what it entails. None of this seems to have much to do with musical structure, however! -- Robin Parmar From cyborgk at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 10:36:44 2009 From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:36:44 -0500 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AB1E24D.7060902@gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <4AB1E24D.7060902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <686ba4e40909170736g4252cd2ep236794e90073dd4f@mail.gmail.com> My interest in theory is to help me to compose in ways I would not have thought of composing, and to allow for cross-cultural hybrids. Now, many of the attempts to cross cultural boundaries end up as post-modern pastiches, or cut-and-paste some exotic elements from one style onto another. I am not interested in this. Instead, I would like to create structures that allow for music that crosses cross-cultural boundaries but does so in an organized and coherent way. I am involved in musical practices rooted primarily in 5 traditions: 1. jazz 2. classical 3. world musics and ritual musics 4. house and techno 5. Experimental electronic, rule-based composition (post-serial or aleatoric), and non-genre based open improvisation On the side of computer music, my primary interest lies in overcoming the limitations of current software and hardware tools. My model for future Human-Computer musical interactions would be the experience of playing piano and saxophone. Three particular goals interest me: 1. Creating a more physical interactive experience 2. Linking that physical experience to a rich and nuanced sound palate 3. Creating instruments which are intuitive and inspiring, and allow complex performances, both improvised and composed ~David > My take on this is theory is not necessary if you already know the > practice. Xenakis and Roads are most useful if you want to expand > existing musical definitions and forms. If you don't want to do that, > then you will learn much more by practicing the existing forms within > the culture and native praxis of those forms than you will from an > abstracted theory of it. In other words, for me, theory is best suited > for discovering the places where practices could exist but does not yet; > the practices themselves will be more useful when those practices exist. > Or, put another way, I learn music from the practice of music, I learn > theory to learn what the practice of music could become. From the.apx at libero.it Thu Sep 17 14:32:57 2009 From: the.apx at libero.it (Adern X) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:32:57 +0200 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090917203257.5fa62a09@pigeon> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:32:42 -0500, a Bad Day on the Midway, David Powers wrote: > I don't think any of those theories include culture and semiotics, > without which one could not understand, say, the music of Gustav > Mahler or Charles Mingus. The problem is: you have to define two semiotic interpretation: one for the music of Mahler, one for Mingus and so on. Music have not an underlying grammar like normal language that is stable. The grammar change during time too much. > In fact I find Xanakis and Roads to be > useful but extremely limited theoretically in terms of understanding > music in general. Both concentrate on very narrow, particular subsets > of musical practice rather than providing any kind of account of > musical practice in general. I believe musical practice can be defined only on historical basis i.e., if you want to provide any kind of account, you have to descrive Xenakis music like Bach's but they don't even share their notation. Hi, A.X -- ( mailto: adern at libero.it http://www.xevor.net )) |""|-. http://www.myspace.com/adernx |__|-' "Boredom is the mother of creativity" (Ron Arad) From tjaredfriend at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 14:43:02 2009 From: tjaredfriend at gmail.com (Jared Friend) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:43:02 -0700 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <20090917203257.5fa62a09@pigeon> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <20090917203257.5fa62a09@pigeon> Message-ID: <686773150909171143i34876db4t3d94787f1b1e9858@mail.gmail.com> > > I believe musical practice can be defined only on historical basis > i.e., if you want to provide any kind of account, you have to descrive > Xenakis music like Bach's but they don't even share their notation. > I'm not sure dissimilar notation is that large of a barrier to overcome... Linguistic analysis can be incredibly successful and revealing across languages that share little in terms characters and symbols. While historical context will surely help in investigation, it's hardly the sole element. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From the.apx at libero.it Thu Sep 17 15:02:22 2009 From: the.apx at libero.it (Adern X) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:02:22 +0200 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <686773150909171143i34876db4t3d94787f1b1e9858@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <20090917203257.5fa62a09@pigeon> <686773150909171143i34876db4t3d94787f1b1e9858@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090917210222.12d26626@pigeon> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:43:02 -0700, a Bad Day on the Midway, Jared Friend wrote: > I'm not sure dissimilar notation is that large of a barrier to overcome... > Linguistic analysis can be incredibly successful and revealing across > languages that share little in terms characters and symbols. While > historical context will surely help in investigation, it's hardly the sole > element. I don't Linguistic analysis can't be successful but music is not properly a language (many things in music are not notated). I thinks linguistic can work within an historical context. Hi, A.X -- ( mailto: adern at libero.it http://www.xevor.net )) |""|-. http://www.myspace.com/adernx |__|-' "Boredom is the mother of creativity" (Ron Arad) From tjaredfriend at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 15:10:22 2009 From: tjaredfriend at gmail.com (Jared Friend) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:10:22 -0700 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <20090917210222.12d26626@pigeon> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <20090917203257.5fa62a09@pigeon> <686773150909171143i34876db4t3d94787f1b1e9858@mail.gmail.com> <20090917210222.12d26626@pigeon> Message-ID: <686773150909171210t56a410docc49146ca8015cc3@mail.gmail.com> > I don't Linguistic analysis can't be successful but music is not > properly a language (many things in music are not notated). I thinks > linguistic can work within an historical context. > Of course it works in a historical context, but it's not the only approach you'll take when analyzing structure. Are you also suggesting that every element of language is notated? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cyborgk at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 15:16:29 2009 From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:16:29 -0500 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <686773150909171143i34876db4t3d94787f1b1e9858@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <20090917203257.5fa62a09@pigeon> <686773150909171143i34876db4t3d94787f1b1e9858@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <686ba4e40909171216y2bc52800id8acaf7dba2c4eec@mail.gmail.com> The theoretical language I am developing should apply to both Bach and Xanakis. Bach's musical technique tends to result in overall static textures that are stable within a given period of time. His small pieces tend to live within one single textural domain. In my own terminology, Bach works with single "plateaus" in short pieces, and sequences of plateaus in larger pieces. The Goldberg Variations would consist of 31 distinct plateaus, for instance. Xenakis' statistical methods, on the other hand, give rise to both static plateaus, and transitions between plateaus. ~David On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Jared Friend wrote: > >> >> I believe musical practice can be defined only on historical basis >> i.e., if you want to provide any kind of account, you have to descrive >> Xenakis music like Bach's but they don't even share their notation. > > I'm not sure dissimilar notation is that large of a barrier to overcome... > Linguistic analysis can be incredibly successful and revealing across > languages that share little in terms characters and symbols. While > historical context will surely help in investigation, it's hardly the sole > element. > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > From the.apx at libero.it Thu Sep 17 16:00:07 2009 From: the.apx at libero.it (Adern X) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:00:07 +0200 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <686773150909171210t56a410docc49146ca8015cc3@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <20090917203257.5fa62a09@pigeon> <686773150909171143i34876db4t3d94787f1b1e9858@mail.gmail.com> <20090917210222.12d26626@pigeon> <686773150909171210t56a410docc49146ca8015cc3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090917220007.7763c913@pigeon> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:10:22 -0700, a Bad Day on the Midway, Jared Friend wrote: > > I don't Linguistic analysis can't be successful but music is not > > properly a language (many things in music are not notated). I thinks > > linguistic can work within an historical context. > > > > Of course it works in a historical context, but it's not the only approach > you'll take when analyzing structure. Are you also suggesting that every > element of language is notated? I suppose that every element of language _should_ be notated (grammar cannot contain everything e.g., the non verbal language we use is non notated), but not everything is notated so we have to "interpret". That's why imho musical practice change with time. Hi, A.X -- ( mailto: adern at libero.it http://www.xevor.net )) |""|-. http://www.myspace.com/adernx |__|-' "Boredom is the mother of creativity" (Ron Arad) From the.apx at libero.it Thu Sep 17 16:06:33 2009 From: the.apx at libero.it (Adern X) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:06:33 +0200 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <686ba4e40909171216y2bc52800id8acaf7dba2c4eec@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <20090917203257.5fa62a09@pigeon> <686773150909171143i34876db4t3d94787f1b1e9858@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909171216y2bc52800id8acaf7dba2c4eec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090917220633.4ffb3486@pigeon> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:16:29 -0500, a Bad Day on the Midway, David Powers wrote: > The theoretical language I am developing should apply to both Bach and Xanakis. > > Bach's musical technique tends to result in overall static textures > that are stable within a given period of time. His small pieces tend > to live within one single textural domain. In my own terminology, Bach > works with single "plateaus" in short pieces, and sequences of > plateaus in larger pieces. The Goldberg Variations would consist of 31 > distinct plateaus, for instance. > > Xenakis' statistical methods, on the other hand, give rise to both > static plateaus, and transitions between plateaus. Seems interesting, have you done a pdf or something else where you explain in detail your method? I'm not completely convinced that your plateau concept can descrive both Xenakis and Bach but perhaps i have a wrong understanding of "plateau". Hi, A.X -- ( mailto: adern at libero.it http://www.xevor.net )) |""|-. http://www.myspace.com/adernx |__|-' "Boredom is the mother of creativity" (Ron Arad) From paulo.mouat at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 20:24:59 2009 From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:24:59 -0400 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <657456.26664.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <657456.26664.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <424ce300909171724v60623e34xbbde140f1b2dddee@mail.gmail.com> > All they set out to do is describe and formalise practice in stochastic music and microsound respectively. Formalized Music has a lot more beyond stochastic music (fyi, the original french edition is now available for free in pdf). And the analysis tools and methodologies in Microsound are an essential complement to any musician interested in looking at sound and music at that scale--one could say at the sub-note level--something no other book covers in such a systematic way. > I am hardly the expert you need, since I have not read the work either. Apparently a translation is in process. > I hazard that a good deal of it seems to be concerned with a formal typography of sonic material. > > If you are more interested in philosophical models then examine Schaeffer's four listening modes All of that is in the Trait?. The formal _typography_ (?) -- a better word would perhaps be typology -- is but a chapter of the book. Topics covered range from the basic act of doing/making music, be it by playing an instrument or doing acousmatic music, capturing sound, all the way to music as a discipline. Quite a wide range, and one that fills its 700 pages densely. //p http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulo.mouat at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 20:54:05 2009 From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:54:05 -0400 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <20090917220633.4ffb3486@pigeon> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <20090917203257.5fa62a09@pigeon> <686773150909171143i34876db4t3d94787f1b1e9858@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909171216y2bc52800id8acaf7dba2c4eec@mail.gmail.com> <20090917220633.4ffb3486@pigeon> Message-ID: <424ce300909171754h23e28e01q58a968c6b3c8952a@mail.gmail.com> Plateau is probably a "region of stability". But as with most things, we would then have to define what "region" and "stability" mean. In my opinion, such taxonomies end up being more or less arbitrary and ultimately fail to provide a consistent and generalized view (in other words, there will always be grey areas, considerations and edge cases outside the system)--which I don't see as a problem, as I'm not really interested in finding the One True Theory. //p http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0 On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Adern X wrote: > On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:16:29 -0500, a Bad Day on the Midway, David Powers < > cyborgk at gmail.com> wrote: > > > The theoretical language I am developing should apply to both Bach and > Xanakis. > > > > Bach's musical technique tends to result in overall static textures > > that are stable within a given period of time. His small pieces tend > > to live within one single textural domain. In my own terminology, Bach > > works with single "plateaus" in short pieces, and sequences of > > plateaus in larger pieces. The Goldberg Variations would consist of 31 > > distinct plateaus, for instance. > > > > Xenakis' statistical methods, on the other hand, give rise to both > > static plateaus, and transitions between plateaus. > > Seems interesting, have you done a pdf or something else where you > explain in detail your method? > I'm not completely convinced that your plateau concept can descrive > both Xenakis and Bach but perhaps i have a wrong understanding of > "plateau". > > Hi, > A.X > -- > ( mailto: adern at libero.it http://www.xevor.net > )) > |""|-. http://www.myspace.com/adernx > |__|-' "Boredom is the mother of creativity" (Ron Arad) > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cyborgk at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 21:27:01 2009 From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 20:27:01 -0500 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <424ce300909171754h23e28e01q58a968c6b3c8952a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <20090917203257.5fa62a09@pigeon> <686773150909171143i34876db4t3d94787f1b1e9858@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909171216y2bc52800id8acaf7dba2c4eec@mail.gmail.com> <20090917220633.4ffb3486@pigeon> <424ce300909171754h23e28e01q58a968c6b3c8952a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <686ba4e40909171827h7529d7a9rff14b7f2e6ad89e8@mail.gmail.com> Yes, I think seeking the One True Theory would be a fool's errand. My own interest is simply in finding new and productive ways to look at my musical practice; none of theory I learned in compositional school seems to really fit with the reality of multiplicity and diversity of structures that I work with. Using the concept of plateaus and transitions, for instance, I might be inspired to compose a piece that gradually moved from Xenakis style sound masses to Bach-style counterpart. With computers, one would probably use a statistical transition. To perform an improvised version, I might only compose the plateaus and let improvisers create the transitions spontaneously. This is a trivial example, but my point is the thought to try this didn't occur to me before I thought of a concept that seems to apply to two extremely different sounding musics, and which allowed me to imagine some relationship between them. I simply want a PRODUCTIVE theory that allows me to improvise and compose in a disciplined yet spontaneous way. I'm sure there are plenty of useful ways of thinking of such things out there, but I'm just not familiar with them. As I've started to create my own personal theory of music, the main result is that I'm now inspired to create musical structures I hadn't thought of before. ~David On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Paulo Mouat wrote: > Plateau is probably a "region of stability". But as with most things, we > would then have to define what "region" and "stability" mean. In my opinion, > such taxonomies end up being more or less arbitrary and ultimately fail to > provide a consistent and generalized view (in other words, there will always > be grey areas, considerations and edge cases outside the system)--which I > don't see as a problem, as I'm not really interested in finding the One True > Theory. > //p > http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0 > > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Adern X wrote: >> >> On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:16:29 -0500, a Bad Day on the Midway, David Powers >> wrote: >> >> > The theoretical language I am developing should apply to both Bach and >> > Xanakis. >> > >> > Bach's musical technique tends to result in overall static textures >> > that are stable within a given period of time. His small pieces tend >> > to live within one single textural domain. In my own terminology, Bach >> > works with single "plateaus" in short pieces, and sequences of >> > plateaus in larger pieces. The Goldberg Variations would consist of 31 >> > distinct plateaus, for instance. >> > >> > Xenakis' statistical methods, on the other hand, give rise to both >> > static plateaus, and transitions between plateaus. >> >> Seems interesting, have you done a pdf or something else where you >> explain in detail your method? >> I'm not completely convinced that your plateau concept can descrive >> both Xenakis and Bach but perhaps i have a wrong understanding of >> "plateau". >> >> Hi, >> A.X >> -- >> ?( ? ? mailto: adern at libero.it ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://www.xevor.net >> ?)) >> |""|-. http://www.myspace.com/adernx >> |__|-' "Boredom is the mother of creativity" (Ron Arad) >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > From kim at anechoicmedia.com Fri Sep 18 10:23:30 2009 From: kim at anechoicmedia.com (Kim Cascone) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:23:30 -0700 Subject: [microsound] what is .microsound? Message-ID: <4AB397E2.4050105@anechoicmedia.com> I'm writing an introduction to the issue of Vague Terrain on .microsound I'm inviting list members to write a short statement outlining what they think .microsound is rules -- please read and please follow!!! *** 100 words or less *** plain text *only* - in body of email - i.e. no .doc, rtf, etc file attachments will be accepted *** deadline is Wed Sept 23rd *** send to: anechoicmedia at gmail.com From listekutusu at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 16:34:13 2009 From: listekutusu at gmail.com (Korhan Erel) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:34:13 +0300 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> Message-ID: <170C5B32-37B5-4503-B109-27004BE6B355@gmail.com> My principles in digital instrument design on the laptop: - No random processes - everything is determined by the instrument player - No long delays or reverbs that keep on processing the sound even after the player has stopped playing. Instrument makes sound when triggered and stops when the trigger (nowadays either a Wiimote or an iPod Touch running TouchOSC) - No wide frequency ranges - every instrument can play only a certain range of frequencies at any given time - the total range may be wide, but you don't hear the full sound spectrum at the same time - The instrument does not require looking at the laptop screen - the player may look at it from time to time, just like a guitar player looking at the fretboard occasionally, but the instrument's playability should not depend on the player focusing on the screen all the time Since I play almost exclusively with other musicians, most of them being acoustic instrumentalists, these principles allow me to play with them, to create space for them, to remain silent whenever I feel it's necessary.... My sound sources are usually samples (own sound designs, location recordings, recordings from my analog setup) being scanned LiSa-like (using Live's Simpler instrument). There may or may not be some processing of these sounds, usually the processing is nothing more than playback speed change and a slight touch of reverb. Korhan On 15.Eyl.2009, at 09:12, Kim Cascone wrote: > I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in > laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). > > What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From damian.ml at frey.co.nz Fri Sep 18 17:08:40 2009 From: damian.ml at frey.co.nz (Damian Stewart) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:08:40 +0200 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <170C5B32-37B5-4503-B109-27004BE6B355@gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <170C5B32-37B5-4503-B109-27004BE6B355@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB3F6D8.50308@frey.co.nz> hi Korhan, sounds interesting, not unlike my own principles (before i gave up... but that's another story). any documentation online? audio/video? cheers d (http://frey.co.nz/content/music/unreleased/oct_2008/ might be of interest..) Korhan Erel wrote: > My principles in digital instrument design on the laptop: > > - No random processes - everything is determined by the instrument player > - No long delays or reverbs that keep on processing the sound even after > the player has stopped playing. Instrument makes sound when triggered > and stops when the trigger (nowadays either a Wiimote or an iPod Touch > running TouchOSC) > - No wide frequency ranges - every instrument can play only a certain > range of frequencies at any given time - the total range may be wide, > but you don't hear the full sound spectrum at the same time > - The instrument does not require looking at the laptop screen - the > player may look at it from time to time, just like a guitar player > looking at the fretboard occasionally, but the instrument's playability > should not depend on the player focusing on the screen all the time > > Since I play almost exclusively with other musicians, most of them being > acoustic instrumentalists, these principles allow me to play with them, > to create space for them, to remain silent whenever I feel it's > necessary.... > > My sound sources are usually samples (own sound designs, location > recordings, recordings from my analog setup) being scanned LiSa-like > (using Live's Simpler instrument). There may or may not be some > processing of these sounds, usually the processing is nothing more than > playback speed change and a slight touch of reverb. > > Korhan > > > > > On 15.Eyl.2009, at 09:12, Kim Cascone wrote: > >> I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in >> laptop music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). >> >> What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -- damian stewart | skype: damiansnz | damian at frey.co.nz frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz From paulo.mouat at gmail.com Fri Sep 18 19:04:04 2009 From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat) Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:04:04 -0400 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <170C5B32-37B5-4503-B109-27004BE6B355@gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <170C5B32-37B5-4503-B109-27004BE6B355@gmail.com> Message-ID: <424ce300909181604t662f7d97w29f345e34d3007cc@mail.gmail.com> This is very interesting indeed and almost diametrically opposed to my approach. My own principles: - No synthesized sound (I only use processed acoustic sounds or musical phrases--filtered and/or stretched and/or contracted repeatedly) - Retain the 'organic' character of the sounds - Everything (onsets, durations, pitch shifts) is determined from the sound itself, although I might nudge things into place here and there Some consequences of the above principles: - No live interaction (it's more like tape music) - There's no concept of individual "notes", but rather "events" - All "gestures" come from each individual sound, they are not hand-built from separate notes or events - Apart from the nudging, I just "let the sounds be" (to paraphrase Feldman) I do have works that fall outside these parameters (and I am currently playing with the notion of using synthesized sound), however these principles have been my focus for the last 10 years. To hear what has come out of all this, check the pieces on the page in my signature. The pieces I am most happy with are "Menons klagen um Diotima" (where all material derives from a 15-sec violin solo phrase) and "Konzentrische" (where all material derives from an orchestral passage). //p http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0 On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 4:34 PM, Korhan Erel wrote: > My principles in digital instrument design on the laptop: > > - No random processes - everything is determined by the instrument player > - No long delays or reverbs that keep on processing the sound even after > the player has stopped playing. Instrument makes sound when triggered and > stops when the trigger (nowadays either a Wiimote or an iPod Touch running > TouchOSC) > - No wide frequency ranges - every instrument can play only a certain range > of frequencies at any given time - the total range may be wide, but you > don't hear the full sound spectrum at the same time > - The instrument does not require looking at the laptop screen - the player > may look at it from time to time, just like a guitar player looking at the > fretboard occasionally, but the instrument's playability should not depend > on the player focusing on the screen all the time > > Since I play almost exclusively with other musicians, most of them being > acoustic instrumentalists, these principles allow me to play with them, to > create space for them, to remain silent whenever I feel it's necessary.... > > My sound sources are usually samples (own sound designs, location > recordings, recordings from my analog setup) being scanned LiSa-like (using > Live's Simpler instrument). There may or may not be some processing of these > sounds, usually the processing is nothing more than playback speed change > and a slight touch of reverb. > > Korhan > > > > > On 15.Eyl.2009, at 09:12, Kim Cascone wrote: > > I'm gathering some info for a lecture I'm giving about structure in laptop >> music (read: electro-acoustic, noise, microsound, etc). >> >> What sorts of structure do people use in creating their work? >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es Sun Sep 20 16:04:22 2009 From: mail at jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jaime_Mun=E1rriz_Ortiz?=) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:04:22 +0200 Subject: [microsound] musical structure Message-ID: <4AB68AC6.4080607@jaime-munarriz.jazztel.es> I've been quite obsessed with this subject lately. I've developed some theories, quite coincident with the ones being exposed at his list. Background / foreground, planes, lines and dots. Geometric elements that appear over a fuzzy landscape. Evolving clouds over rigid objects. I think we are developing Kandinsky's system, trying to establish the basic elements that make sound [or music]. Form, as evolution of the sonic material in time, has made me look for old books on music theory, finding powerful and funny ideas like that the perfect sturcture is ABA... ?? Reading "The study of counterpoint" by Fux and "Formalized music" by Xenakis at the same time has been exciting and really thought provoking. Form, as an structure developed into time, seems the articulation of these basic elements and the frame that articulates it's relationships. It is always present, and can be simplified with theories, but real composing is always a more rich and complex phemomenom. Theories seem a nice start point, but the real and dirty work of composition is always much more strange and difficult. Ideas that looked nice on paper seem dull and graceless when materialized. I always get on playing and manipulating sound in unnplanned ways, and it is then when I get to an interesting point. As said before, this theories are a good starting point, a generative way of thinking, but they are just the first steps for the real work.Geometric scores have opened a new field for my work. Form structured in oposing parts, with different tempos and signatures, has make me jump out of continous evolving pieces. Macro and micro structure, and it's relationship, demand attention to the material in a very special way. All this thinking processes enrichens the composer and it's music.Theories are good because allow us to see things from a different perspective. Just don't stay there for too long, or you'll just repeat the same ideas forever. Jaime Mun?rriz From michaelbeijer at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 18:32:05 2009 From: michaelbeijer at gmail.com (Michael Beijer) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:32:05 +0200 Subject: [microsound] [SOUNDHACK] [on] [WINDOWS] Message-ID: <836981290909211532n2c622618q615c632117ca88ec@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone. I have a simple question: can someone point me in the right direction for a Soundhack-like Windows alternative for doing convolution with (like you can do in Soundhack/Cecilia/FScape)? Thanks, Michael -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellomynameisphil+mcrsnd at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 19:01:46 2009 From: hellomynameisphil+mcrsnd at gmail.com (Phil Thomson) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:01:46 -0700 Subject: [microsound] [SOUNDHACK] [on] [WINDOWS] In-Reply-To: <836981290909211532n2c622618q615c632117ca88ec@mail.gmail.com> References: <836981290909211532n2c622618q615c632117ca88ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Why would you not use Fscape or Cecilia on Windows? I was not aware that you could do convolution with Cecilia, but you can do so with Fscape, and both of them have Windows versions as far as I know. You might also consider using a convolution reverb VST plugin that allows one to choose the impulse. In this way, you can do a lot of what you can do with Soundhack, and in real time to boot. On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Michael Beijer wrote: > Hello everyone. I have a simple question: can someone point me in the right > direction for a Soundhack-like Windows alternative for doing convolution > with (like you can do in Soundhack/Cecilia/FScape)? > > Thanks, > > Michael > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > -- The American Dream may not be available in your country due to copyright restrictions. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Phil Thomson ~ http://philthomson.ca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From michael.north at sympatico.ca Mon Sep 21 19:30:37 2009 From: michael.north at sympatico.ca (Michael North) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:30:37 -0400 Subject: [microsound] [SOUNDHACK] [on] [WINDOWS] In-Reply-To: References: <836981290909211532n2c622618q615c632117ca88ec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B64FF92-3BE6-46FB-A62B-94663705A49A@sympatico.ca> there is an excellent vst convolution reverb-> SIRR(for windows), it used to be free but I understand it's now a commercial package...if you can find the old vst it really is an excellent tool...i may have a copy of it somewhere if I can find it you are welcome to it..... On 21-Sep-09, at 7:01 PM, Phil Thomson wrote: > Why would you not use Fscape or Cecilia on Windows? I was not aware > that you could do convolution with Cecilia, but you can do so with > Fscape, and both of them have Windows versions as far as I know. > > You might also consider using a convolution reverb VST plugin that > allows one to choose the impulse. In this way, you can do a lot of > what you can do with Soundhack, and in real time to boot. > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Michael Beijer > wrote: >> Hello everyone. I have a simple question: can someone point me in >> the right >> direction for a Soundhack-like Windows alternative for doing >> convolution >> with (like you can do in Soundhack/Cecilia/FScape)? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Michael >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> >> > > > > -- > The American Dream may not be available in your country due to > copyright restrictions. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Phil Thomson > ~ http://philthomson.ca/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > Michael North http://tiny.cc/D116v http://tiny.cc/wIMHz http://www.pertin-nce.com michael.north at sympatico.ca "Enough with politics! On with the practical tasks of everyday life!? From mail at rapisarda.org Tue Sep 22 02:15:46 2009 From: mail at rapisarda.org (Giuseppe Rapisarda) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:15:46 +0200 Subject: [microsound] R: [SOUNDHACK] [on] [WINDOWS] In-Reply-To: <4B64FF92-3BE6-46FB-A62B-94663705A49A@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <006001ca3b4c$207bfbb0$4001a8c0@trivial> SIR2 is a commercial package but SIR1 is freeware You can find it here http://www.knufinke.de/sir/sir1.html Best, Giuseppe. -----Messaggio originale----- Da: microsound-bounces at or8.net [mailto:microsound-bounces at or8.net] Per conto di Michael North Inviato: marted? 22 settembre 2009 1.31 A: microsound at microsound.org Oggetto: Re: [microsound] [SOUNDHACK] [on] [WINDOWS] there is an excellent vst convolution reverb-> SIRR(for windows), it used to be free but I understand it's now a commercial package...if you can find the old vst it really is an excellent tool...i may have a copy of it somewhere if I can find it you are welcome to it..... On 21-Sep-09, at 7:01 PM, Phil Thomson wrote: > Why would you not use Fscape or Cecilia on Windows? I was not aware > that you could do convolution with Cecilia, but you can do so with > Fscape, and both of them have Windows versions as far as I know. > > You might also consider using a convolution reverb VST plugin that > allows one to choose the impulse. In this way, you can do a lot of > what you can do with Soundhack, and in real time to boot. > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Michael Beijer > wrote: >> Hello everyone. I have a simple question: can someone point me in >> the right >> direction for a Soundhack-like Windows alternative for doing >> convolution >> with (like you can do in Soundhack/Cecilia/FScape)? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Michael >> >> _______________________________________________ >> microsound mailing list >> microsound at microsound.org >> http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound >> >> > > > > -- > The American Dream may not be available in your country due to > copyright restrictions. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ~ Phil Thomson > ~ http://philthomson.ca/ > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > Michael North http://tiny.cc/D116v http://tiny.cc/wIMHz http://www.pertin-nce.com michael.north at sympatico.ca "Enough with politics! On with the practical tasks of everyday life!? _______________________________________________ microsound mailing list microsound at microsound.org http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound From randal_davis at operamail.com Tue Sep 22 12:51:58 2009 From: randal_davis at operamail.com (Randal Davis) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:51:58 -0700 Subject: [microsound] [SOUNDHACK] [on] [WINDOWS] Message-ID: <20090922165158.C3B697BD70@ws5-10.us4.outblaze.com> I'll join the chorus (no pun intended) on behalf of the SIR freeware, which is really an outstanding piece of work, and worth a look, I would think, to almost any microsounder.? You might also look at Teragon Audio's Convolver (also freeware).? And, depending on what convolution functions you are specifically looking for, it's possible that some of Tom Erbe's freeware Delay Trio, available on the Soundhack site, would provide a reasonable approximation.? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Beijer" To: microsound at or8.net Subject: [microsound] [SOUNDHACK] [on] [WINDOWS] Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 00:32:05 +0200 Hello everyone. I have a simple question: can someone point me in the right direction for a Soundhack-like Windows alternative for doing convolution with (like you can do in Soundhack/Cecilia/FScape)? Thanks, Michael _______________________________________________ microsound mailing list microsound at microsound.org http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -- _______________________________________________ Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way: Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com Powered by Outblaze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdara at email.com Fri Sep 25 17:41:51 2009 From: macdara at email.com (Manannan Mac Lir) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:41:51 -0500 Subject: [microsound] meta-theory Message-ID: <20090925214151.BDDC6BE407E@ws1-9.us4.outblaze.com> I very much enjoyed some of the theoretical debates, particularly the meta-theory thread.I have been reading a biography of Afred Schnittke recently and it seems that his later approach is aimed at creating a meta-music, where time, style, genre are all entwined in a musical utopia, a utopia in which rational time is overwhelmed by musical time. This seems to me similar to the late ideas of Philip K. Dick where he sees his Valis trilogy as a sphere of information through which infinite journeys are possible. The director Werner Herzog also uses the term ecstatic truth to describe this type of expression, that of an experience beyond the rational truth, this could possibly apply to Lynch?s Inland Empire . I would like to propose a discussion on the types of theoretical models used by us in our work, be they psychological, mathematical, philosophical or just plain mystical. I was tickled by the meta-theory idea and believe that as a group, microsound has a huge potential in this area of creative investigation. All aboard? ? Le grand Macdara -- An Excellent Credit Score is 750 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From contact at agxivatein.com Fri Sep 25 21:03:09 2009 From: contact at agxivatein.com (Agxivatein) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:03:09 +0300 Subject: [microsound] meta-theory In-Reply-To: <20090925214151.BDDC6BE407E@ws1-9.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20090925214151.BDDC6BE407E@ws1-9.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: in the text sonic experiences found here: http://www.marinoskoutsomichalis.com/text/text.html I discuss my approach to sound-art, m On 26 ??? 2009, at 12:41 ?.?., Manannan Mac Lir wrote: > I very much enjoyed some of the theoretical debates, particularly > the meta-theory thread.I have been reading a biography of Afred > Schnittke recently and it seems that his later approach is aimed at > creating a meta-music, where time, style, genre are all entwined in > a musical utopia, a utopia in which rational time is overwhelmed by > musical time. This seems to me similar to the late ideas of Philip > K. Dick where he sees his Valis trilogy as a sphere of information > through which infinite journeys are possible. The director Werner > Herzog also uses the term ecstatic truth to describe this type of > expression, that of an experience beyond the rational truth, this > could possibly apply to Lynch?s Inland Empire . I would like to > propose a discussion on the types of theoretical models used by us > in our work, be they psychological, mathematical, philosophical or > just plain mystical. I was tickled by the meta-theory idea and > believe that as a group, microsound has a huge potential in this > area of creative investigation. All aboard? > > > > Le grand Macdara > > > -- > An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulorcbarros at uol.com.br Fri Sep 25 23:01:29 2009 From: paulorcbarros at uol.com.br (Paulo R. C. Barros) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:01:29 -0300 Subject: [microsound] "Skrien Magazine" In-Reply-To: References: <20090925214151.BDDC6BE407E@ws1-9.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <4abd8409162ec_7d8d3226ea826f@weasel4.tmail> http://www.mediaartfriesland.nl/NFF%20VideoArt%20Collection.pdf Published in "Skrien Magazine" (The Netherlands) by Richtje Reinsma. All the best, Paulo From vze26m98 at optonline.net Sat Sep 26 08:50:58 2009 From: vze26m98 at optonline.net (Charles Turner) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:50:58 -0400 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <424ce300909161906y5b93ed2et9524f5f797d15c9@mail.gmail.com> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161906y5b93ed2et9524f5f797d15c9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003D6638-CB82-4676-ACAB-D6E84076D867@optonline.net> On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:06 PM, Paulo Mouat wrote: > My mention of Xenakis > These works are culture-agnostic Not completely sure of what you mean by "culture-agnostic," but IX's essay "Towards a Metamusic," which appeared in the U.S. edition of _Formalized Music_ (1971) and after, is quite concerned with cultural processes and products. Also, in the 1950s "comparative musicology" was quite an important area of study, now largely over-taken by ethnomusicology. The comparative outlook held out a notion of universalism: that all the world's musics could be explained/accounted for in one big theory. Viewed from that context, IX and Schaeffer's theories aren't agnostic, but simply participated in the universalizing trends of their time. Best, Charles From technohead3d at googlemail.com Sat Sep 26 11:15:16 2009 From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:15:16 +0100 Subject: [microsound] meta-theory In-Reply-To: <20090925214151.BDDC6BE407E@ws1-9.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20090925214151.BDDC6BE407E@ws1-9.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <5badef3b0909260815s4ab811e2pca53b6ba7c53b84f@mail.gmail.com> Mannanan, Thank you for starting such a thread. Well, I like to contemplate a fusion of nihilism with self-similarity; everything is a metaphor for everything and everything else. Everything is everything and everything else. All is infinitely self-similar. Thus, everything is neither superior nor inferior to everything else; everything is neither more beautiful nor more ugly than everything else. I find such a concept very harmonious, and yet by the nature of everything, or rather infinity, it self-references, covering the very opposites to all that I have stated, and how I find such a concept very disharmonious also. This is my personal indulgence in a new kind of music...the aforementioned harmony and the loops and cycles of the self-reference subsequently (like the loops and cycles of rhythms) and the rhythm of opposites, reactions and the harmony of symmetry created from such conceptual equal and opposite reactions . Adam James Davis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cyborgk at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 14:07:43 2009 From: cyborgk at gmail.com (David Powers) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:07:43 -0500 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <003D6638-CB82-4676-ACAB-D6E84076D867@optonline.net> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161906y5b93ed2et9524f5f797d15c9@mail.gmail.com> <003D6638-CB82-4676-ACAB-D6E84076D867@optonline.net> Message-ID: <686ba4e40909261107ia4516dfgcb3d7e91a7bbad8@mail.gmail.com> I think that a particular culture will have both universal elements and unique elements. It's funny because Xenakis seems least qualified of anyone to postulate about metamusic; his sound to me is extremely rational-technocratic, and clearly the product of a culture obsessed with scientific progress. My own theories of metamusic are much more holistic/nondualistic; I am influenced by Taoism and Buddhism from the East, Hegel, Adorno, and Deleuze from the West, and African/Afro-American spirituality and musical practice. I am not only concerned with formal structure, but also improvisation, and musically induced alternative experiences of consciousness (ritual trance). ~David On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Charles Turner wrote: > On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:06 PM, Paulo Mouat wrote: > >> My mention of Xenakis > >> These works are culture-agnostic > > Not completely sure of what you mean by "culture-agnostic," but IX's essay > "Towards a Metamusic," which appeared in the U.S. edition of _Formalized > Music_ (1971) and after, is quite concerned with cultural processes and > products. > > Also, in the 1950s "comparative musicology" was quite an important area of > study, now largely over-taken by ethnomusicology. The comparative outlook > held out a notion of universalism: that all the world's musics could be > explained/accounted for in one big theory. Viewed from that context, IX and > Schaeffer's theories aren't agnostic, but simply participated in the > universalizing trends of their time. > > Best, Charles > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > From macdara at email.com Sat Sep 26 16:04:11 2009 From: macdara at email.com (Manannan Mac Lir) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:04:11 -0500 Subject: [microsound] meta-theory Message-ID: <20090926200411.659FA606865@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> What do you base this dualism on, it appears Taoist possibly (except for self similarity). Does it come from observation? I think from an analytical perspective it also places itself in an area inaccessible to certain forms of criticism that cant take into account emergent behaviour. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Davis" To: microsound at microsound.org Subject: Re: [microsound] meta-theory Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:15:16 +0100 Mannanan,?Thank you for starting such a thread. Well, I like to contemplate a fusion of nihilism with self-similarity; everything?is a metaphor for everything and everything else. Everything?is everything and everything else. All is infinitely self-similar. Thus, everything is neither superior nor inferior to everything else; everything is neither more beautiful nor more ugly than everything else. I find such a concept very harmonious, and yet by the nature of everything, or rather infinity, it self-references, covering the very opposites to all that I have stated, and how I find such a concept very disharmonious also. This is my personal indulgence in a new kind of music...the aforementioned harmony?and the loops and cycles?of the self-reference subsequently (like the loops and cycles of rhythms) and the rhythm of opposites, reactions and the harmony of symmetry created from such conceptual equal and opposite reactions . ?Adam James Davis ? _______________________________________________ microsound mailing list microsound at microsound.org http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -- An Excellent Credit Score is 750 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paulo.mouat at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 16:40:23 2009 From: paulo.mouat at gmail.com (Paulo Mouat) Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:40:23 -0400 Subject: [microsound] musical structure In-Reply-To: <003D6638-CB82-4676-ACAB-D6E84076D867@optonline.net> References: <4AAF3037.8060009@anechoicmedia.com> <6517a5220909161031p56dfc335ueb4faa62a4c8e84f@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161438m14e15ad4v8961e33775a88342@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161525k61eafed2h251e237b09b1ee92@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161548t7113a6f5g3e6385fb1fcb4328@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161606q10f58e14v42dae3e08a194aa0@mail.gmail.com> <686ba4e40909161632q1aed5b3bq64a3103d2d6b0a1d@mail.gmail.com> <424ce300909161906y5b93ed2et9524f5f797d15c9@mail.gmail.com> <003D6638-CB82-4676-ACAB-D6E84076D867@optonline.net> Message-ID: <424ce300909261340g79a89548u17774cc5006c6d62@mail.gmail.com> What I meant was that they are not tied to what might be generally called "western" (or other) music. It was precisely the "Towards a Metamusic" chapter that I was thinking of when I wrote that. Perhaps a better word would have been pan-cultural, given that acultural would be impossible. //p http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0 On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Charles Turner wrote: > On Sep 16, 2009, at 10:06 PM, Paulo Mouat wrote: > > My mention of Xenakis >> > > These works are culture-agnostic >> > > Not completely sure of what you mean by "culture-agnostic," but IX's essay > "Towards a Metamusic," which appeared in the U.S. edition of _Formalized > Music_ (1971) and after, is quite concerned with cultural processes and > products. > > Also, in the 1950s "comparative musicology" was quite an important area of > study, now largely over-taken by ethnomusicology. The comparative outlook > held out a notion of universalism: that all the world's musics could be > explained/accounted for in one big theory. Viewed from that context, IX and > Schaeffer's theories aren't agnostic, but simply participated in the > universalizing trends of their time. > > Best, Charles > > > > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From technohead3d at googlemail.com Sun Sep 27 12:30:57 2009 From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:30:57 +0100 Subject: [microsound] meta-theory In-Reply-To: <20090926200411.659FA606865@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20090926200411.659FA606865@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <5badef3b0909270930s7951769dnd3015b8908b680f3@mail.gmail.com> I would say it came from a long time trying to see the beauty, harmony and symmetry in absolutely everything, thus: Symmetry and asymmetry, which is itself a symmetry, or metasymmetry. But the dominance of the symmetry over asymmetry is itself a meta-asymmetry...so on and so forth, ad infinitum. Those cycles... Though I remain optimistic that in a very far future, say, in a postposthuman age, there'll be innovations which shall allow for the escaping of feedback and cycles which are impossible now and may remain possible even in a posthuman future (something I like to call "cyclo-anarchy"...I've written a little bit about it). I also envision a future where strange loops and feedback will actually be the musical instruments of the future...the tools of a new rhythmic appreciation. Such thoughts are inspiration for the more euphoric moments in my music. Also, I probably wouldn't say it's a dualism, rather, an infinitism maybe? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdara at email.com Sun Sep 27 13:08:06 2009 From: macdara at email.com (Manannan Mac Lir) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:08:06 -0500 Subject: [microsound] meta-theory Message-ID: <20090927170806.86367606869@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> What do you think is beyond the loops. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Davis" To: microsound at microsound.org Subject: Re: [microsound] meta-theory Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:30:57 +0100 I would say it came from a long time trying to see the beauty, harmony and symmetry in absolutely everything, thus:?Symmetry and asymmetry, which is itself a symmetry, or metasymmetry. But the dominance of the symmetry over asymmetry is itself a meta-asymmetry...so on and so forth, ad infinitum. Those cycles...?Though I remain optimistic that in a very far future, say, in a postposthuman age, there'll be innovations which shall allow for the escaping of feedback and cycles which are impossible now and may remain possible even in a posthuman future (something I like to call "cyclo-anarchy"...I've written a little bit about it). I also envision a future where strange loops and feedback?will actually be the?musical instruments?of the future...the tools of a new rhythmic appreciation. Such thoughts are inspiration for the more euphoric moments in my music.?Also, I probably?wouldn't say it's a dualism, rather, an infinitism maybe? _______________________________________________ microsound mailing list microsound at microsound.org http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -- An Excellent Credit Score is 750 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivalladt at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 13:12:00 2009 From: ivalladt at gmail.com (Ismael Valladolid Torres) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:12:00 +0200 Subject: [microsound] CC licensed music repositories Message-ID: Sorry in advance for crossposting. I am creating my own podcasts. However I am concerned about how the songs and audio I'm using as background of my speeches is copyrighted. So I wonder which repositories of CC licensed music are out there, so I can download songs and use them freely as backgroud music in my podcasts complying to their license simply by attributing. Ambient style suits perfectly, but other styles could also be useful for me. Any ideas useful so thanks in advance. Cordially, Ismael -- Ismael Valladolid Torres Hey there! ivalladt is using Twitter. http://twitter.com/ivalladt t. 0034912519850 Facebook: http://profile.to/ivalladt m. 0034609884094 (Yoigo) http://groups.to/lamediahostia Google Talk/Jabber/MSN Messenger: ivalladt at gmail.com Jaiku/Twitter/Skype/Yahoo!: ivalladt AIM/ICQ: 264472328 GnuPG key: DE721AF4 From ken at restivo.org Sun Sep 27 14:46:39 2009 From: ken at restivo.org (Ken Restivo) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:46:39 -0700 Subject: [microsound] [LAU] CC licensed music repositories In-Reply-To: <200909271918.46170.bengan@bag.org> References: <200909271918.46170.bengan@bag.org> Message-ID: <20090927184639.GB20361@aieee.restivo.org> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 07:18:46PM +0200, Bengt G?rd?n wrote: > On s?ndag 27 september 2009 19:12:00 Ismael Valladolid Torres wrote: > > Sorry in advance for crossposting. > > > > I am creating my own podcasts. However I am concerned about how the > > songs and audio I'm using as background of my speeches is copyrighted. > > So I wonder which repositories of CC licensed music are out there, so > > I can download songs and use them freely as backgroud music in my > > podcasts complying to their license simply by attributing. Ambient > > style suits perfectly, but other styles could also be useful for me. > > > > Any ideas useful so thanks in advance. > > ccmixter comes to mind. > > http://ccmixter.org/ I know a guy who does music for podcasts, but I don't think it's CC. Still, ask him, maybe he'll license some. http://www.podsmack.com/ There is so much CC music out there. Maybe try lam.fugal.net for starters! -ken From carsonwhitley at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 15:22:26 2009 From: carsonwhitley at gmail.com (carson whitley) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:22:26 -0700 Subject: [microsound] [LAU] CC licensed music repositories In-Reply-To: <20090927184639.GB20361@aieee.restivo.org> References: <200909271918.46170.bengan@bag.org> <20090927184639.GB20361@aieee.restivo.org> Message-ID: archive.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hellomynameisphil+mcrsnd at gmail.com Sun Sep 27 15:39:22 2009 From: hellomynameisphil+mcrsnd at gmail.com (Phil Thomson) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:39:22 -0700 Subject: [microsound] [LAU] CC licensed music repositories In-Reply-To: References: <200909271918.46170.bengan@bag.org> <20090927184639.GB20361@aieee.restivo.org> Message-ID: magantune.com On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 12:22 PM, carson whitley wrote: > archive.org > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > > -- The American Dream may not be available in your country due to copyright restrictions. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ Phil Thomson ~ http://philthomson.ca/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From technohead3d at googlemail.com Sun Sep 27 17:13:48 2009 From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:13:48 +0100 Subject: [microsound] [LAU] CC licensed music repositories In-Reply-To: References: <200909271918.46170.bengan@bag.org> <20090927184639.GB20361@aieee.restivo.org> Message-ID: <5badef3b0909271413s56ed3db9sf80865001676483f@mail.gmail.com> Ismael, Even though I know little about the repositories you originally inquired for, I'd be happy to send you some ambient tracks I have made for you to use. I'll email some MP3s over if thats okay with you :) May I ask what your podcasts will be about, out of curiosity? I don't mean to go too off-topic... Best wishes, Adam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From technohead3d at googlemail.com Sun Sep 27 17:45:30 2009 From: technohead3d at googlemail.com (Adam Davis) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:45:30 +0100 Subject: [microsound] meta-theory In-Reply-To: <20090927170806.86367606869@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> References: <20090927170806.86367606869@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Message-ID: <5badef3b0909271445r2c93ef5cte2d13640fd8ffc43@mail.gmail.com> This comparison may be rather crude, but I think trying to answer that question is analogous to a very prehistoric human trying to deduce what is beyond the big blue thing above it. I'd say probably millions of years from now, we will need extreme innovations that will physically manifest what we qould now consider to be absurd illogic. Take the Law of the Excluded Middle, for instance. It states that everything must either be or not be...but what if the "postposthuman" technology I just speculated would invert such a law and allow something to be physically being and not being, simultaneously on, say, the macroscale. Or, for an infinite impossibility to actually occurr whilst still remaining infinitely impossible. Paradox: A frontier outside of infinity...but surely infinity, because of it's infinite nature, would encompass the frontier outside of it; feedback, a loop...thus the need for cyclo-anarchic technology that will allow paradoxes to be transcended and for a "frontier outside of infinity" to be explored...for absurd illogic to exist and to be explored physically. I'd love to hear some of your ideas too :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macdara at email.com Mon Sep 28 06:00:25 2009 From: macdara at email.com (Manannan Mac Lir) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:00:25 -0500 Subject: [microsound] meta-theory Message-ID: <20090928100025.754FD606865@ws1-4.us4.outblaze.com> Well I think what you're saying reminds me of David Bohm and his implicate order and the enfoldment of the universe. There are some really strange moments in Messiaen's piano and organ music where I think it pushes you beyond a rational or linear concept of time, it becomes enfolded to the?extent that events become timeless, Messiaen wanted to create a sense of timelessness which is itself a paradox, indeed?in one of the movements of his quartet for the end of time the tempo marking is infinitely slow which taken literally is a human (maybe not post-human?) impossibility but the suggestion or intention is interesting. Ligeti in his Aventures imagined a solid infinite block of sound that one?experienced for a period but without beginning or end.?Something I havent found enough information on so far is the aspect of music, psychology is too restricted a word, which effects ones "physically conscious" self.?Why does music make more emotional sense than most other things to me? It seems to allow for an expansion of consciousness which I havent seen developed in other art forms.?The Sufi mystic and musician Hazrat Inayat Khan has some very interesting writing, David Borgo's book Synch or swarm is interesting but ignores the "psychic" interplay between audience/performers that can occur.?What I "want" is a musical theory/framework which can deal with diverse psychological phenomena. I still love notes and all that stuff but it seems to me the only important factor is how it effects the recipient. I think feedback loops have a huge role in determining the wiring of for example?a group performance or composition, I'm only coming to terms with them via Fritjof Capra's web of life. For me the cyclic metaphor is liberating because it seems to partially resolve the composition/improvisation problem I have in never being totally satisfied with either, the cycle or feedback loop having the ability to encompass any situation. I dont think any music theory has really taken into account feedback loops in the contemporary sense. With a feedback loop one can create a living or developing system which seems to me infinitely interesting. I agree with you about absurd logic but I would say that in my ownexperience it is lack of absurdity that is illogical ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Davis" To: microsound at microsound.org Subject: Re: [microsound] meta-theoryI Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:45:30 +0100 This comparison may be rather crude, but I think trying to answer that question is analogous to a very?prehistoric human?trying to deduce what is beyond the big blue thing above it. I'd say probably millions of years from now, we will need extreme innovations that will physically manifest what we qould now?consider to be absurd illogic. Take the Law of the Excluded Middle, for instance. It states that everything must either be or not be...but what if the "postposthuman" technology I just speculated would invert such a law and allow something to be physically being and not being, simultaneously on, say, the macroscale. Or, for an infinite impossibility to actually occurr whilst still remaining infinitely impossible.???Paradox: A frontier outside of infinity...but surely infinity, because of it's infinite nature, would encompass the frontier outside of it; feedback, a loop...thus the need for cyclo-anarchic technology that will allow paradoxes to be transcended and for a "frontier outside of infinity" to be explored...for absurd illogic to exist and to?be explored physically. ?I'd love to hear some of your ideas too :) _______________________________________________ microsound mailing list microsound at microsound.org http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound -- An Excellent Credit Score is 750 See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jimmybehan at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 06:52:44 2009 From: jimmybehan at gmail.com (Jimmy Behan) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:52:44 +0100 Subject: [microsound] CC licensed music repositories In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hi ismael, you could try the zymogen netlabel which releases ambient/experimental sounds. all releases under CC and available in HQ mp3 and lossless FLAC. www.zymogen.net bests, jimmy. 2009/9/27 Ismael Valladolid Torres > Sorry in advance for crossposting. > > I am creating my own podcasts. However I am concerned about how the > songs and audio I'm using as background of my speeches is copyrighted. > So I wonder which repositories of CC licensed music are out there, so > I can download songs and use them freely as backgroud music in my > podcasts complying to their license simply by attributing. Ambient > style suits perfectly, but other styles could also be useful for me. > > Any ideas useful so thanks in advance. > > Cordially, Ismael > -- > Ismael Valladolid Torres Hey there! ivalladt is using Twitter. > http://twitter.com/ivalladt > > t. 0034912519850 Facebook: http://profile.to/ivalladt > m. 0034609884094 (Yoigo) http://groups.to/lamediahostia > > Google Talk/Jabber/MSN Messenger: ivalladt at gmail.com > Jaiku/Twitter/Skype/Yahoo!: ivalladt > AIM/ICQ: 264472328 GnuPG key: DE721AF4 > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shinkei at koyuki-sound.org Mon Sep 28 07:13:25 2009 From: shinkei at koyuki-sound.org (shinkei) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:13:25 +0200 Subject: [microsound] CC licensed music repositories In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: you may use our net-releases : http://www.koyuki-sound.org not exactly ambient, but they are not going to overwhelm your speeches with too much volume, either :-) david. Il giorno 27/set/09, alle ore 19:12, Ismael Valladolid Torres ha scritto: > Sorry in advance for crossposting. > > I am creating my own podcasts. However I am concerned about how the > songs and audio I'm using as background of my speeches is copyrighted. > So I wonder which repositories of CC licensed music are out there, so > I can download songs and use them freely as backgroud music in my > podcasts complying to their license simply by attributing. Ambient > style suits perfectly, but other styles could also be useful for me. > > Any ideas useful so thanks in advance. > > Cordially, Ismael > -- > Ismael Valladolid Torres Hey there! ivalladt is using Twitter. > http://twitter.com/ivalladt > > t. 0034912519850 Facebook: http://profile.to/ivalladt > m. 0034609884094 (Yoigo) http://groups.to/lamediahostia > > Google Talk/Jabber/MSN Messenger: ivalladt at gmail.com > Jaiku/Twitter/Skype/Yahoo!: ivalladt > AIM/ICQ: 264472328 GnuPG key: DE721AF4 > _______________________________________________ > microsound mailing list > microsound at microsound.org > http://or8.net/mailman/listinfo/microsound > :...::::...::.:..:::..::..:..:::.::... out now: Variations in White http://fourm.wordpress.com From ivalladt at gmail.com Mon Sep 28 18:43:04 2009 From: ivalladt at gmail.com (Ismael Valladolid Torres) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 00:43:04 +0200 Subject: [microsound] CC licensed music repositories In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All answers damn useful! Thanks a lot! Cordially, Ismael -- Ismael Valladolid Torres Hey there! ivalladt is using Twitter. http://twitter.com/ivalladt t. 0034912519850 Facebook: http://profile.to/ivalladt m. 0034609884094 (Yoigo) http://groups.to/lamediahostia Google Talk/Jabber/MSN Messenger: ivalladt at gmail.com Jaiku/Twitter/Skype/Yahoo!: ivalladt AIM/ICQ: 264472328 GnuPG key: DE721AF4 From thinksamuel at yahoo.com Wed Sep 30 10:55:39 2009 From: thinksamuel at yahoo.com (Samuel van ransbeeck) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 07:55:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [microsound] A Generative Grammar for Jazz Chord Sequences By Mark J. Steedman Message-ID: <973225.35364.qm@web34202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello I am looking for this paper "A Generative Grammar for Jazz Chord Sequences" by Mark J. Steedman. It was published in Music perception in 1984 but I cannot find any pdf of it, only some papers talking about it. Does somebody has this paper? Thanks a lot -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: