[microsound] why i'm not excited about Live

[Bill Jarboe]

I think you should use Live. I can hardly be accused of being  
impatient , and I don't mind if it's version 2 , or if you wait for  
version 8, or something in between.

   Of course you may take your precious Tom Erbe's other plugins with  
you , and I'm not even offended by your using Wave Editor , even  
though I've never known anyone use such a thing. I don't even mind if  
you're not wearing Nike tennis shoes , or listening to an ipod , I'm  
putting my foot down on this one , though.

   Remember that we live in a fairly liberal and easy going society  
( is it possible to live in a society , the great society , the tired  
of being great yet possibly more interesting society?) and there is  
nobody really checking up on what applications a person, musician  
( yeah , right . Go work out with some muses then tell me how it  
feels, ok?) is using.

   The people who work for pro tools don't go around snickering at  
someone dusting off a reel of Emtec , laying down tracks then  
chopping it to bits  calling them amateurish or irresponsible. Logic  
doesn't have a huge advertising campaign stating: 'Everything else is  
just non-sequiturs and insanity'.


On Jan 29, 2009, at 8:02 AM, CraqueMat wrote:

> External to the computer, I use a good deal of custom hardware and
> sampled objects and looping/delays.
>
> I was a Digital Performer user for a good 10 years before diving into
> learning Logic, which is what I use now.
>
> SoundHack is indispensable, as are Tom Erbe's other plugins. Along  
> these
> lines I've also employed Plogue Bidule.
>
> Wave Editor is now my waveform editor of choice.
>
> Check out my software page: http://sounding.com/blog/?page_id=89
>
> Max & Mark wrote:
>> So what do u use then ?
>>
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : microsound-bounces at or8.net [mailto:microsound- 
>> bounces at or8.net] De la
>> part de CraqueMat
>> Envoyé : 19 janvier 2009 13:03
>> À : microsound list
>> Objet : Re: [microsound] why i'm not excited about Live
>>
>> I've tried to embrace Ableton Live, I truly have.
>>
>> I grew up on "real DAW" before the D was even part of it (remember
>> before the Internet that thing called just "MOTU Performer" and it's
>> multiple copy-protected floppies?), so maybe I'm just being too  
>> inflexible.
>>
>> And frankly, I haven't explored Live beyond the versions I can  
>> get, uh,
>> "preview copies" of. However, it's such a delicate DRM matter that  
>> I'd
>> rather not bother, because it could stop working, so I don't.
>>
>> I like some of the GUI benefits of Live. It makes for a quick work  
>> flow,
>> maybe too quick, maybe too easy. When I use Live, I feel like I'm
>> playing with a toy, which may not be a bad thing, but in so many  
>> cases I
>> have gotten going in one direction and hit walls that I don't  
>> encounter
>> in DP or Logic. So much so, that it's been frustrating to the  
>> point that
>> I can't use Live because I know the walls are there, and Live will  
>> force
>> me to work in a certain Live-Paradigm that sometimes just isn't
>> complemented by my brain (and vice versa) or what I want to  
>> accomplish
>> musically.
>>
>> It's extremely cost prohibitive for me as well. Laying down several
>> hundred clams on a DAW means to me: you're using that DAW until  
>> you get
>> your money's worth. When I wonder about how many people I know use  
>> these
>> software packages illegally, I also wonder about how many people
>> actually pay for them, and what the real market demand is. In other
>> words, the sort of grassroots/DIY/homemade music (that I'm  
>> interested in
>> at least) isn't made by people that have a few grand of cash lying
>> around to buy software to help them make music. There's a weird
>> economical constant buried in there someplace, because I know  
>> software
>> piracy in the underground electronica world is pretty rampant. Is  
>> this
>> part of the "academic" dichotomy? I don't really know, but it  
>> feels to
>> me like academes probably have easier "legal" access to this software
>> than a grassroots musician does.
>>
>> In the end, I don't use things like Max/MSP and Live because they are
>> not the way I think about making music, in fact I often feel like  
>> they
>> get IN the way. I'm much more tactile, I get very easily frustrated
>> that, when using "software" to *create* music, I become lost in the
>> creation of the software and not the making of music. This is  
>> probably a
>> hangover from being a classical musician, where the means to  
>> create are
>> immediately at hand (or throat, as the case may be).
>>
>> Pluggo is plenty for me, in other words. While I know the DSP  
>> folks will
>> friggin love the Live/Max marriage, I don't see a use for it. I know
>> it's a flexible program, I have a good friend who uses it  
>> religiously,
>> and *I* was the one to get him to move off ACID onto Live.  
>> Personally, I
>> feel like Live forces me to work in a particular way with a
>> particular... well, "groove", for lack of a better word. That may  
>> be a
>> preset/customization argument, but when I see how cookie cutter  
>> Live has
>> gotten (it's not nearly as slim as it used to be, I get easily  
>> confused
>> looking at its interface nowadays, and now it seems like nearly EVERY
>> plugin has its own catalog of presets), it doesn't enamor me to  
>> use it.